Combat Lethality in NEO Scavenger

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I play with cheats/hacks to get all skills, unlimited moves, unlimited food/hunger, lots of clothes and 20 shotgun shells.

I was continuously shooting the shotgun with about a 60% hit rate at a DMC guard that suffered no wounds from any of my attacks, when he called in sniper support which fired one shot and killed me instantly.

I propose that dmc snipers need to be only called in for backup when you're fighting at most 3-5 hexes outside of dmc or at the very edge of junk town.

1) I fixed your post up a bit to make it easier for me to understand.
2) Playing with cheats is not officially supported, so if you wish to discuss balancing them, I'd suggest using the modding subforum as that's why it is there.
3) 60% hit rate against a DMC guard with a shotgun sounds like you were near the max range for the shotgun. Even with Ranged, your character can only do so much.
4) DMC guards wear bullet resistant armor, shotgun shells have a relatively low penetration value and as such wouldn't do much damage to a guard.
5) If you paid attention to the development of the game, you'd see that DMC snipers have, in fact, been removed entirely. Making your suggestion fairly pointless.

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I am become death; destroyer of worlds.

I don't know what this guy is talking about, I would pray for the Dog-B-Gone thing so I could get cash fast.

... I wanted to centralize that discussion here, so folks could read and share thoughts. ...

I've read the 1st post in entirety, but not the following ones. Below is what i think.

... and it felt like the game was playing Russian roulette each turn. ...

I concur: this is unacceptable.

... and I like how it's described as an unsafe investment of time. Even more so, I agree with the philosophy that defeat should always be the player's fault (i.e. usually for taking unnecessary risks). ...

I concur - it's unsafe. I'd add: for taking unneeded risks AND/OR for failure to prepare for dangers well enough.

... In practical terms, I think what happened was that the dogman got a high damage roll on G's upper chest. ...

Then this is what has to be made impossible - i.e. the player must have means to achieve the state of "nobody can deal a single death blow, no matter how high damage roll it is, and no matter which particular FULL-HEALTH vital part of the body they hit with it". If not done, then the problem will persist, as long as melee combat is a part of the game. And, it is a part, - big and fun one. It'd be bad to reduce it to ashes for the sake of safety.

... Certain weapons, the dogman's claw, cleaver, and wrench among them, are capable of dealing that kind of damage in one shot, provided the wielder has the "Melee" skill. The "Strong" skill also amplifies melee damage, so the lethality can actually be a bit higher.

No point to reduce damage potential of those weapons - it would ruin possible player's own fun progression to "deadlier" melee weapons. Instead, there are two means to adress their high damage in terms of the player character survivalability, and i think both should be used:
1. Tune "Tough" skill to provide enough % reduction of any incoming melee damage (if not done yet), so that TOUGH player without any protection would never, ever get instakilled (or blacked out, which is about the same) in just one melee hit, even by melee+strong opponents with most deadly melee weapons. Here's why:

Spoiler: Highlight to view
// reason: after all, _some_ folks are really, really hard to smack down even in real life. I'll give an exmaple. One drama russian movie has a breathtaking scene which is pretty much understandable even without knowing russian - it's starting 1:18:00 and ends ~1:19:30: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ams18iNMBE . THIS is what "tough" means, in my book - some people just can't be taken down even with a point blank baseball bat hit to the head. The movie's name is "Stone head", and is a semi-fictional story of a professional boxer. The actor who played the boxer (the big tough guy) - _is_ a professional boxer in real life, Nikolay Valuev. I've seen him taking hits - in the ring - which would knock out "normal" heavyweight to some 5+ minutes of unconsiousness, but for him, those means some ~20 seconds of mostly defending, after which he's back in full fighting condition.

2. For the rest of the crowd, provide the alternative: armor. Items worn on head and on torso should provide % reduction to melee damage taken BY THOSE VITAL body parts - i.e. head, upper and lower chest, and (not sure, - is it vital in Neo?) stomach. Reason and details:

Spoiler: Highlight to view
Reason: it would be not realistic at all that same (in strength) upper-chest hit would deal the same damage to both a fresh character wearing only hospital gown, and to a veteran who's torso is protected by some hoodie+tactical_vest. The latter is supposed to be body armor, which means it offers nearly impenetrable protection against melee _stabbing_ weapons, allowing only bruising and blunt trauma (such as broken ribs) to happen. That's 1st reason. 2nd reason is: it would be very appropriate if players could "improve" and "prepare" in such a way, for multiple reasons, some of which will be explained further in my post.
Details:"Early" items which are not per-se armor - gas mask, hoodie, dogman coat, fur an ATN coats - should be significantly reducing the chance of being insta-killed in melee (for non-tough chars), with exact values set differently to reflect how protecting against stabbing and blunt melee weapons those items are; and "best" items of the sort - i.e. tactical vest and the helmet, - should provide non-tough character as much protection as "tough" skill gives to its owner. The two should obviously stuck, since there are and will be players who want to create "an ultimate melee fighter", - and for them, both armor and tough skill will be very welcome, to further increase their longevity in a melee fight. Of course, the two things stack only for vital body parts which helmet(s)/body armor(s) protect - for limbs, there may or may not be such melee-damage-reducing items.

Conversely, damage is randomly determined on a bell curve, with the highest probability somewhere near the middle of the prescribed range. Lack of skill or strength further decrease the upper limit. On average, a dogman (who has strong and melee coupled with lethal claws) should require 2 hits to a single hit location to reach 90% of that location's capacity. One-shots are possible, though, as are weaker hits. ...

This seems very proper to me. I'd keep this. Additionally,

Spoiler: Highlight to view
the 2nd solution proposed above - body armor, - reduces damage only for torso and head parts. Limbs remain fully vulnerable. This is where those extra strong hits would still mean very much - crippled limb is a serious disabling factor for much of further gameplay, and i bet players will try to avoid crippled limbs as much as they try to avoid death. Especially since the former can lead to the latter during further gameplay, in a downward spiral.

... Realistic? I think so. Fair? I also think so, though G is right that they were railroaded a bit into a hard fight. Fun? Maybe not so much, and I'd like to talk about some options for increasing the fun. Particularly, ways that won't ruin the fear factor and sense of challenge NEO Scavenger has. ...

Not exactly realistic. See the spoiler for ~2 quote above. Fair? Depends. For skilled in melee combat, in real life, it's very natural to never expose their vitals to the opponent, unless nearly disabled by damage to limbs, and/or exhausted, and/or outnumbered. The "good body armor plus helmet guarantees immunity to one-hit melee kills" solution is, IMHO, 1) fun (and i wish there were few more different armor sets in the game!), 2) does not ruin the fear - see the note about limbs just above, and 3) does not reduce feeling of challenge at all - but increases it. The latter is

Spoiler: Highlight to view
obvious from a simple logic: if the player does NOT play the game, then there is _zero_ feeling of challenge - and therefore, _any_ feeling of challenge, however small, would be better, as long as the solution made results in some player(s) returning to the game (or not stopping playing it due to same problem, in the future).

... We could always scale down damage vs. hit locations, such that more hits are required to cause fatality. However, I've heard many complaints that battle takes too long right now. This is even after damages were slightly increased from their original specs. Players feel like battles are a bog. If anything, battles should probably be shorter. ...

Please don't scale down the damage; it's not the same as the armor effect i propose, because such a reduction would be _always_ in place, while armor effect - will not (one will need to get armor or armor-like items like thick ATN coat 1st, and percentages can vary from item to item; sometimes players need to trade off such protection instead of more important at the time function - such as working gas mask to walk in the black swamp; etc). I'd use both solutions presented above, instead. Note:

Spoiler: Highlight to view
that's a very, very old solution, and generally very logical: in-game progression of weapons for both player and enemies from weak to deadly - is good, ideally ad infinitum; to maintain balance, similar progression of defensive measures - typically either armor/resistances and/or "hitpoints increase", - is in place. Classic Blizzard Diablo and WoW are _all_ about that, combat-wise - and those are both RPG games (of different sorts).

An another IMHO important note about fight duration:

Spoiler: Highlight to view
i am VERY sure that length of fights in terms of number of turns - is OK as it is, even when one is playing defensively and only with a melee weapon, in which case a single fight can take some 5+ dozens turns.

I am equally sure that the problem which people (including myself) are reporting - is in fact how much "rest" bar is reduced during fights - which is TOO much; i've made a post somewhere proposing to decrease the speed with which rest bar goes down during fights by some 90...95% (and demonstrated that realistic figure would be even higher - some 97...99% reduction). Time flow should probably be reduced as well during fights (in terms of "outside world" speed of daytime changes), but not as much.

Those changes would make _long_ in terms of number of combat turns, carefully thought tactically fights to be NOT detrimental to rest bars, hydration and hunger bars, player's plans to "make it" to certain location before dark, etc - which is a very good thing for the gameplay; AND those changes would be realistic, too.

Little thought experiment.
- Exercise: how much time and energy it takes for one to make, say, 30 punches, 5 kicks, and walk "in combat mode" some 50-100 meters?
- Real life: go outside and try yourself. It takes some ~3 minutes or even less. How much energy it takes? Can one get significantly more hungry or thirsty as a result of such an exercise, in real life? Nope. One can't.
- In-game, as it is now: if you'd try to do said 30 punches, 5 kicks, and some 20...40 turns of "walking" movement and similar number of "running" movement - assuming 1 unit of range is something close to 1 meter distance - then you'd have your character unable to do it all, since he'd drop down in complete exhaustion even if his rest bar was 100% at the start of the fight; and even if you could do all that - i bet many, many more times of in-game time (in terms of dawn->day->evening->dusk->night rotation) than 3 minutes would pass.
- Result: the current mechanic seems to be unrealistic!

... Dogmen could be rarer. Or made into something one could avoid or prepare for, rather than encountering them everywhere and often. This is likely going to happen anyway, as they're meant to be a more regional threat. ...

Dogmen are meat and fur source. Shouldn't be made _too_ rare, for this reason, i guess. Plus, - diversity (of enemies) is a good thing for the game. Reducing it too much - hurts. Solutions i propose make them "something one could prepare for" indeed. Until player does - an escape option is, of course, desirable (see below).

... That said, raiders and the like are still pretty dangerous. And there will always be a "killing blow" in battle. No matter how low damages get, there's always that last, fatal strike that puts a target over the edge. Lower damages give more time to course-correct, but they also diminish the urgency and risk of battle. ...

Solutions i proposed above do not have those disadvantages. IMPORTANT note:

Spoiler: Highlight to view
please consider two possible cases:
- Case A: dogman/raider/alike rolls a hit with enough damage to instakill a "blank" character (not tough, no armor, not feeble - "pure standard"), and the hit _does_ kill the character.
- Case B: same creature rolls same hit, but one or both of solutions i proposed - are in effect, and therefore, the character survives the hit.
What would be consequences of both cases in terms of "urgency and risk of battle"?
- Case A: since the player is dead, no immediate feeling of urgency and risk is possible. Can't play a dead character = can't feel urgency and risk. Starting anew, the amount of such feelings will still remain rather unchanged, as long as vast majority of melee encounters end without any major injury (please refer to the original story mention how he killed TWO dogmen with a crowbar early in game, "without a sweat").
- Case B: character is alive, but due to the power of the hit, he's in trouble: 1st, severe bruising is probably the least of damage he recieved; 2nd, he _knows_ that one of his vital organs is significantly damaged now, and he _knows_ (if he's any smart) that continuing the fight in such condition _now_ _can_ lead to instant death. Thus NOW, he probably feels much more feeling of risk and urgency, and is probably looking to escape the fight, instead if winning it. In my book - EXCELLENT outcome, adding (and not substracting) from said feelings!

... I could have the "DM" intervene before player death. One thing a good DM would do in a situation like this is to "fudge" the die roll, using some sort of dramatic outcome to punish, but not kill, the player. I like this approach, and it fits with my goals for the game (i.e. a computer-based, single player equivalent to pen and paper RPGs). ...

With both my solutions implemented, this won't be needed. Instead of fudging the roll, the "1st heavy" hit will be it: the sign and punishment (the damage sustained and the need to escape, instead of trying to kill, the opponent). The enemy will likely track, and the damage from such a hit would possibly be somewhat mean by itself, plus for at least a fair while (2+ days?) until the character's vital part is still damaged - any further melee fighting would have to be avoided (if player is not willing to take the risk of instant death), which for melee-oriented characters is perhaps the most punishment of it all. BTW, that's why such hits should be sufficiently not frequent, - perhaps exactly how infrequent "melee instadeath" now are. If so, then my 2 solutions would be perfect. And of course, possible (sooner or later - inevitable) encounters with a _group_ of enemies - will still amply provide those "OH @#$T!!!" moments in the game, you know? Plus there are all those instant deaths in quests / encounters, too!

... However, leaning on the "DM as a savior" crutch has it's own pitfalls. If we use it too much, the player will start to expect it, and will probably lose the sense of danger. I think fear and danger are two things NEO Scavenger has going for it, so I'd hate to lose that edge. ...

My solutions keep the sense of danger of instakill _unless_ player is tough or prepared (by getting and using body armor and helmet) by 100%, and keep most of it even if/after player has one or both of those things obtained, as described in spoiler two quotes above. And, of course, no need to have this "DM as a savior" at all - instead, "Tough skill as a saviour" and/or "Body armor as a savior" are _options_ to use, if the player so desires. Those who love risk are still not forced to use either of them; something which would not be the case if this "DM as a saviour" thing would be implemented.

... We could change the way scavenging attracts monsters. Perhaps if there was more of a strategic option to avoid your battle, that would have helped? Especially if it was a non-lethal setback that guaranteed your escape. That way, you could weigh your options before the battle, and decide if it was worth taking the gauranteed hit in exchange for escape, or if you wanted to take your chances in battle. ...

Something like this is needed, yes. I have my own idea here -

Spoiler: Highlight to view
what exactly a typical real person with some experience (not skill) in fighting would do, if he recieves a very powerful and possibly bone-breaking hit in melee fight? More importantly, what he _could_ do, being not in the top shape to continue the fight? Right, - he'd cheat, i bet! How about this: add just one more combat move available for _all_ characters - both with melee skill and without, and no matter any traits: "throw ash and escape".
- what it does: character throws a lot of ash into opponents' eyes and escapes while the enemy is blinded,
- resources one needs to have to execute the move: 10 handfuls of ash,
- max range of the ability: 1 (ash can't fly any far in any tight form, eh),
- availability: any position of the user (standing, lying) and any position of the enemy (standing, lying),
- effect: the user of the ability escapes the battle, _before_ his/her enemy could do anything during the same combat turn.
This would be a nice realistic touch to melee combat, i think. Obviously, the character would need to have ash available, and lots of it - 10 units per use of the ability would do, i think. Ash does not stack, so it's 20 units of inventory space, and not in any vehicle which disallow small things, too. Substantial price for such a limited (range, 1 use per so much inventory space) ability to make guaranteed retreat _without_ taking any additional hits. So, there is the element of preparation. Also, human NPC enemies who happen to have ash on hand - could use it too, if given the chance by the player, making the thing effective both-ways. :) Also, by regulating (any means) how big % of human NPCs, and/or what factions of human NPCs have some ash on them, it'd be possible to balance the use of this feature by NPC, and/or create one more "quirk" for some factions. For one, i suspect "Looters" faction would be one which is using this cheap trick whenever possible.

... Or maybe even a middle ground? E.g. you aren't guaranteed escape, but you can take a few injuries or lose items to start at a greater range. ...

If it's not guaranteed, then it's russian roulette again. Half-measures won't work, i am sure!

... I kinda like that last set of approaches. If that were somehow built into all battles, we could sidestep the issue of feeling cheated when killed in battle. Basically, players are in control of certain battle factors before it starts, but they have to "pre-pay" to get them. If they choose the option to guarantee avoiding battle, it costs something dear, but they're safe. If they choose anything less, the price is accordingly smaller, but the risk of death in battle is higher. ...

This would probably be worse than russian roulette - this would probably be a russian roulette with gambling stakes while playing it. Because this can be seen the other way (without changing its essence): player _has to_ "pay" to stay safe, OR he can stake his life (here we go, russian roulette) in order to "WIN" some things (things which he would have to part with if he's staying safe). No doubt, some players will see that as extortion, and messages like "i want to keep _put_whatever_goods_name_here_ i earned without having to risk my life!!!" - will be abundant...

... That was the purpose of the scavenging danger bars, but maybe that system is a bit too abstract. Also, that brings the in-battle system of retreat/range control into question. It could be that said system isn't doing its job, and could also fulfill this role better. ...

Scavenging danger is quite OKish thing right now. I like it! Gives extra purpose to Whiskey (and tanning tea), and to keeping clean rags in substantial amount, and it really forces the player to balance greed vs risk. Range control is quite OKish too. Wanna mobility? Don't use vehicle; wanna more? Be athletic. It's fine. Retreat with the ash described few quotes above (in the spoiler) could help with retreats for players who really care about having such an opportunity - again, it's optional, being a _possible_ combat move nobody forces the player to do.

... Also, I'm not sure what kinds of options we can give a player that are both fair and realistic, but I'm sure at least a couple could be brainstormed. Losing items and taking injuries are two "prices" we've already mentioned, and escape/longer starting range are two "bonuses." ...

Yep, can be. I presented 3 such options (tweaking "tough", if needed; armor effect in melee; ash throw) in this here post, above. I hope they fit all your criterias. Note:

Spoiler: Highlight to view
losing items as the "price" - i don't feel as any effective mechanic for our goals here; i'd avoid it. There are enough things to care about in terms of maintaing supply of needed items, in the game. Luckily, the method of escape i proposed contains its "price" in itself. Thus, from your quote, i see "injuries vs longer starting range" remaining a possible pair. But i do not see any realistic way to "earn" longer starting range by knowingly "taking" some injuries before the fight. Perhaps with the ash throw, longer range at the start is not needed, at all?

... As always, thanks for the feedback. Discussions like these really help make NEO Scavenger better! ...

My pleasure! :)

... our lifestyles, mores, institutions, patterns of interaction, values, and expectations are shaped by a cultural heritage that was formed in a time when carrying capacity exceeded the human load. (c) William R. Catton, Jr

I think optionals are the key...

Go to DMC and buy rescue squad with locator..
(wear the locator and they can fish you out of trouble when you are near or completely dead..)
The more you pay the better the chances of surviving lethality (all or not with big fat hospital bill)
I'd say the range towards DMC would also be taken into account..
(the further away you go, the less chance of surving lethalities..)
Also..the kind of service you buy (level of support) would also be levelled..
Buy full range package (FULL COMBAT SQUAD /w HEAVY ARTILLERY SUPPORT kinda) will cost an arm and two legs probably..
Buying the please help meh package (A spare looter down on his luck drags you back from being trampled upon noticing ur
safety insurance premium (small but existant), gets whatever pieces the Dogman didn't eat back on the doctor table ready for some reconstructive surgery,
while also keeping most of ur loot which he finds way more appealing than the premium in some cases (cheapskate)..)
In any case, it may work, it may not..
It may have some other items required to boost success rate, but in any case there you haiz it..

Not foolproof, but still a big fat chance of survival (or a small one, if ur cheapskatin)

Example pricelist:

1. Help meh please..cost $1000...chances of revival %10...(good luck !)
(a down on his luck looter drags ur ass back in pieces for reconstruction surgey..omg what a bill..)
2. Minimum insurance package..cost $2500....chances of revival %25....(a decent chance for a decent price..)
(A single scout is sent and tries to haul ur trampled hiny back..)
3. Basic insurance package..cost $5000...chances of survival %45....(yup that might really help..)
(a two man squad is sent with retreat in case of heftyness orders..)
4. Full insurance package...cost $10.000...chances of survival %66...(Well paid cash for reliability..)
(rescue by well trained (and payed) merc squad..)
5. Maximum insurance package....cost $20.000...chnaces of survival %75...(Really good odds..)
(full platoon by air rescue..)
6. FULL DELUXE OTT package....cost $50.000...chances of survival %85...(The best...)
(The US army on suped up steroids with battlecarrier orbiting for planetary support..)

Each comes with locator beacon worn on wrist..

Optional items:
Auto adrenaline injector...+2% chance of survival..cost $1000 (needs replenishing after use and/or ANY package to function..)
Early lifesigns depletion transmitter...+2% chances of survival...cost $2000
(also has auto adrenaline system for +2%)
Brainwave amplifier...+2% chances of survival...costs $3000...
(also has auto adrenaline system and early lifesigns depletion transmitter)
Artificial mini circulation system...+2% chances of survival...cost $5000
(also has auto circulation system and early lifesigns depletion transmitter and brainwave amplifier)
Full cranial system backup device...+2% chances of survival...costs $15000
(also has auto circulation system and early lifesigns depletion transmitter and brainwave amplifier and Atrificial mini circulation system.)

All mentioned items and policies expire after one use, although item can be recharged for lower fee (%50)

The maximum chance would be +95% of surving death...
(Don't use random rolls solely when calculating it's success rate..make it interesting..people would hate paying that much and subseqently failing
after the first use..then again..you get what you pay for and no-one can buy immortality..)

Sounds OK O.o ?

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O.o ..cool game..

In any case this will help feeling people all eff'ed when they die with lots of stuff and cash..

Make sure to excempt some of the scenarios though..(like acting stupid and not paying bills etc..)
Or maybe not...would be cool...

You saved out $100 on ur meal...now ur $75.000 insurance premium is all used up..LOL !)

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O.o ..cool game..

Also...for those who really like scavenging forever and ever...$100.000
Full body restoration for one time use...(stackable..)
(100% effective..)
They don't go after ur remains, they simply grow you anew from petry dish..

IMMORTALITY (almost) for sale !!!

Too bad you'll start with hospital gown again..and nothing else..no upgrades...

Can be combined with regular insurance package (when it fails they grow you anew..lives -1)

...I'm wondering how many ppl would actually accumulate like 3+ lives ??..

In any case..do NOT make it cheap !!...(that would really ruin it..)

ttfn..and yes..really nice game..(16+ hour sessions..)

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O.o ..cool game..

Recovery of loot...

In the insurance packages..same as chnace of survival for each item..(full random)

In cae of full body regrowth..ZERO..YOU WUZ DEAD !!!...ur cortex, the implants, the brain ALL EATEN !!...
leftovers involved stuff no bigger than ants carried off..totally crematedz !!!

(Fubar an then some..)

Silly puttified...hamburger cooked and roasted...tiny piles of excremnties..uh-uh totally dead..

Don't you get it ?!?..they had to regrow you from stored DNA samples..so yeah..all loot lost..
(really starting anew..the only exception being cash in the bank and extra regrowth samples..and the insurance that failed this time..)

LOL !

Hey..few get to live after being nommed by dogmenz..

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O.o ..cool game..

wize ZMacZ Furreh saying...

"...DNA samples do not come with pockets..."

a mangled corpse can still have it's loot..although the durability may have suffered though..

I don't think getting chewed up by hungry Dogmez will make the stuff ur hauling more shiny..

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O.o ..cool game..

If ur gonna farm cash for that long a period of time, you might as well put it to good use..

(duh..unless you wanna end up rich turdy ??...-shakes head-..that makes no sense at all..

Btw..if ur gonna implement this officially, can the company (tile) be called Z's place ? or ZMacZ's Insurance COmpany ?..

(I'd appreciate anythuing with the letter "Z" (capital) in it..ty..consider that payment in full..(heh..)...)

Z Insurance...
Z-Place-to-be-customer...
Z Furreh Insurances..
ZMacZ's life OTC shop..
Z OTC Lifeshop...
etc..you get the point right ?!?

(btw: It's pronounced zmexzeeh...like saying smexy, but with a z...)

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O.o ..cool game..

Adding +0.5%-1% modifiers for each of the skills..

Strong +1% (or +0.5%)
(ur strong..strong everywhere..it helps even in the gravest of circumstances..)
Tough +1% (or +0.5%)
(ur tough..as nails..even when bent after hammered..)
Medic +1% (or 0.5%)
(ur medical knowledge adds too..meditation techniques help lowering body functions while maintaining life..)
Mechanic +1% (or +0.5%)
(ur devices can be tweaked just that tiny tiny bit..OTC works for everyone..but tweaking helps you especially..)
Hacking +1% (or +0.5%)
(hmm..one less software bug that might make the difference..)
Athletic +1% (or +0.5%)
(ur physically very fit..no energy goes unspent even when there's next to none..)

No matter how you slice it...there must always be a chance for failure..I'd say a 2% minimum..
So..after having purchased everything and using the best item for escue (revival) the max would be 98% of surviing detah when all that cash has been payed..
When ur not using the best stuff the full 1% for each of those traits..
Maybe levelled per rescue package ?

1% @ Help meh Please..
0.9% @ Minimum package..
0.8% @ Basic package..
0.7 @ Full insurance..
0.6 @ Maximum package..
0.5% @ OTT...

just thinking here..

mehbeh these modifiesr will work in any case ?

still thinking..

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O.o ..cool game..

Picked Melee and Touch. Just found a lighter and crowbar, a Bad Mutha with a monkey wrench shows up, I chose to use meat cleaver to engage instead. I picked parry first (as usual), Game Over as soon as I hit spacebar. Turned out it is one hit to the head (and brain damage).

After a mix of shock, confusion and a bit of frustration, I do think it is totally fair. It is a risk I took and I underestimated the monkey wrench, I should have used crowbar or just avoid this fight.

Might as well add my 2 cents to this thread instead of making a new one for feedback.

In my opinion you can make a perma-death game or a game where the result of combat is largely determined by the RNG - however, you cannot have both in the same game and that's what Neo Scavenger does.

There's just too much combat-randomness in NS for a perma-death game - yes, it's realistic, every stray bullet can end your life, but it's also very unfun when it happens, both in reality and in the game. And providing fun is the primary objective of a game.

Thus something has to give: either the perma-death or the randomness. Can't have both in the same game ...

Even though it is true that there is a lot of randomness in the game, I think this is another reason to have a conservative playstyle, just as most people would do in such situation. What would you do if somethin stronger than you? (call it dogman, call it bear, the point hereis that it is stronger than you) I am certain you wouldn't stand there trading blow for blow as the OP did.

Yes, I know this is a game, and that realism isn't the most important thing in the game considering there are spirits and fictional creatures, but we are talking about a survival game, where your main objective is your survival.

Yet again, randomness isn't the most fun feature in the game, but it kind of balances the lack of good combat AI from the enemy, al least from my point of view.