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I heard someone's story about a fire being stolen?! I didn't even know bandits or looters could actually steal from camp sights. I do notice them standing around on tiles I leave behind with a lot of loot, though. I also have never seen them walk on the cryo lab tile. I feel so safe there, and now I don't feel so safe. So if bandits and looters can steal from you, I think there should be a chest you can find that can't be picked up unless you have a vehicle to put it in. It should have lots of space and no bandits can steal out of it, like a locked chest. Maybe lock picking can be involved in this case some how. Just an idea.

Well maybe you shouldn't just leave your fire laying around in the dirt! XD

Seriously though, I know that if you leave items on the ground, they're up for grabs. In point of fact, this is the very essence of NEO Scavenger - finding & using stuff people left laying around.

One way to combat this is to have the ability to fort up buildings & secure them against intruders. There certainly is plenty of wood laying around. In the case of the Cryo Lab, it would be nice if you had the ability to get the keypad running so you could lock the door & have a secure base of operations.

"Principles have no real force except when one is well-fed." - Mark Twain

that would be cool


A Vault of some kind in city tiles would be interesting. When I first saw the topic though, I got to thinking about suitcases. Passworded or locked but still functionally stealable if one had the proper tools (Such as a shopping cart, since carrying a suitcase full of junk would probably leave anyone severely burdened). Normal bandits and raiders may not be able to walk off with the stuff, but perhaps in the future when more types of encounters are added, I'd have safe-crackers and Hungry Hungry Hobos to worry about walking off with my hard earned goods.

There are a lot of factors at play on this topic, so it's hard to pin down anything just yet. But I see what you're saying.

Right now, the primary tool for avoiding being looted is concealment. Campsites with a high concealment are unlikely to be noticed by AI, so stuff gets looted from them less often. However, once a campsite is known to AI, it's always known.

Fortifying a campsite works in some cases. Though, I'd expect any scavenger who sees a boarded-up house to think, "I bet there's good loot in there." In game terms, it would decrease the campsite's concealment, in exchange for increasing the amount of time it takes to break through fortifications.

E.g. the NPC works through the boards with his crowbar or wrench for an hour or two. He still gets your loot, just delayed a turn or two.

Locks could help too, but if we're going around busting through locks with strong and crowbar, it seems only logical that determined NPCs wouldn't be stopped by locks. Even tough containers, like a briefcase or car trunk, could be foiled.

It seems the only NPC-proof approach would be something indestructible, like a bank vault.

That said, there are some things which would help reduce theft by NPCs. Traps, for example, could injure or kill an intruder. I think that'd be a cool thing to add, much like the scavenge encounters with booby traps that the player suffers. Though, I'd be tempted to add the same new traps to scavenge outcomes :)

Overall, I think it's an interesting topic. I'm not really sure where to start, or what the best way to proceed is. And I've sort of left it as a lower priority, since the eventual game story would have the player moving around a bit more (i.e. less time to nest and fortify).

I suppose that a significant number of players will want to spend more time playing a subsistence game, though. Especially if they've already explored the storyline. And in that case, it probably makes sense to amp-up the campsites at some point.

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

Based on your response, I could actually see myself being more interested in completing the storyline instead of just completely striking out on my own in the survival sim if completing the story meant I got access to a permanent locker (and not before then). You could easily work it into the lore that you need to gain the DMC's trust to gain access to the facilities, providing a secured space for people who have proven themselves to be functioning citizens of the new world order rather than just another dirty hobo with a wrench.

This would help me to be able to determine if I wanted a difficult survival only game one day, and a more focused plot run the next. Conceivably, permanent storage could actually be broken up into various points in the plot; Make their sizes and shapes relatively strange so you could put weapons or booze into it, but not a whole camp. Make them so they cannot be moved from the tile they spawn in, and if you can generate some code to keep them something like 30-40 tiles apart minimum, it'd still preserve the survival element of the game by needing to travel from one to the other to distribute goods and restock anything that may have decayed or been used in a previous hunting trip around the camp.

To be fair, maybe it could also factor in concealment: maybe the building you decide to call home can vary based on how unobtrusive it appears--I'm sure a basement that appears covered with rafters will be less distracting than an office building covered in boards. I definitely think that if most looters can't open locked sheds then there should be a way to make sure that 80-90% of the intruders you meet will not be able to foil the entrance.

re: traps, it would probably add a dimension of hilarity to get back home and find a ton of loot from would-be scavengers that thought they could break in. Might even consider making it into a new set of traits where one has superior hearing/deaf based on if they can hear someone coming into your camp (and add a slight bonus to night fighting).

Looking back over this thread, I see this whole situtation going in 1 of 3 different ways:

SCENARIO #1: Nothing changes. You're a hobo, and you have to defend your bag of dirty rags against other hobos.

SCENARIO #2: Dan takes the easy way out & allows us to have "character housing" which is automatically secure & stealproof. This has the benefit of being simple, but also somewhat breaks the game. One way to prevent this from breaking the game is to work it into the plotline. Maybe you can secure the cryo facilities because only your genetic codes will open the doors. Or maybe you earn a place in a community are given a secure housing area.

SCENARIO #3: You have to utilize material & skills to create a fortified location on your own. Maybe it's underground. Maybe it's a tree-house. Maybe it's a fortified building. Maybe it's a shack cleverly hidden in the woods with the windows boarded up. Maybe it's any of those things...and it all depends on what you find & what skills you have to work with. The upshot here is it fits the game genre. The down-side is that something like this could still be found & raided.

There is also...SUB-SCENARIO 3a: In addition to the above, you have the option of forming some sort of collective in the game. Maybe it's a caravan. Maybe it's a small town. Whatever the case, you receive NPC assistance in forting up a secure facility, so that you don't have to be there all the time to defend it.

"Principles have no real force except when one is well-fed." - Mark Twain

Scenario #2 is what I'm trying to steer away from, with the concept of permanent lockers that are too small to be particularly useful regarding hoarding, but would still be nice to, say, stockpile bullets in (Like maybe a 6 by 7 space locker in the cryo lab, or a small safety deposit box from a gas station, etc). Spaced far enough away from one another to take several days to travel, and still risk the chance of being beaten to death while you try and get to your compound. Looters could still raid whatever wasn't in the locker, easily. It would ultimately come down to what you consider worth holding on to vs what you can afford to live without. (Whats more important to you; bullets or purified water?)

Scenario #3, while interesting, sounds more like the game would have to be entirely re-written to account for larger population bases, settlements, and all the hazards that comes with trying to set up a permanent living space outside the DMC.

For the most part, I'm trying to keep to suggestions that could work within already present code, or work-arounds that ideally wouldn't take too long to implement, if he considers implementing it at all. :)

Besides. I never said I didn't expect to see some explosives and shaped charges to blow open my locker at some point. :P

(For that matter, it'd make an interesting excuse to give the NPCs a chance to come with Lockpicking randomized into their encounters.)

It sounds like what you're talking about is more like dead drops & caches than actual permanent storage. Rather than having a semi-permanent base of operations, you create caches of essential materials in different places to hedge your bets in case you get rolled by 1d6 hobos.

Is that where you were going with that? Or are you thinking in a different direction?

"Principles have no real force except when one is well-fed." - Mark Twain