The highly sought tunic

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The highly sought tunic

hey Dan,

A character ago I went after the tunic and it was a chore and I'm glad it was. At one point I had to give up my binaculars and two noise traps to fit all the pelts in my kit and that nearly cost me my life one night. N e ways next character im scavenging around an appartment or something and I find a tunic for the first time 80% condition worth 40 bucks or so and I was like wtf!! It just made my sacrifices feel cheap that thing is a mile stone to get on your own. I would like to see the tunic non scavengable if you want it you gotta put in the time. Or maybe you could buy one but the price should reflect the man hours and effort it takes to make one. N e ways just some honest player feed back. Take care!!

Maybe the best solution is to reduce or remove it's frequency in loot tables. The price reflects the fact that DMC citizens are probably not interested in a ragged squirrel pelt coat when they can buy a nice, new fleece or other artificial coat. I.e. the guy at the pawn shop wouldn't be interested in it.

I'll make a note to reduce the suirrel tunic in scavenge tables, as you're right, it should be hard or impossible to find. Thanks!

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

Hey Dan,

Thanks for considering that. Now it makes sense to me that it would'nt be worth much. I was thinking it was an ugrade to a hoodie and thought it might of had an armour bonus to melee and claws. I guess it is not as warm as a hoodie also? So really it is just for looks or whatever? Which is fine I'm still gonna rock it anytime I can cause it looks badass!!!!

Hummm that's disappoiting...

I mean, why it's so difficult to make the tunic when it's worst than the hoodie?

A few things to make the tunic worthy:

1 - hoodies must be rare to find.

2 - impossible to find 100% condition hoodies, but easier to find them with 20% - 30% condition

3 - Tunic must give some kind of bonus

And how about the gloves? For what they are good for?

Another use for the squirrel pelts would be extra pockets crafting or some kind of bag.

Yeah that's kinda how I felt. If there are bigger game to hunt in the future with the short bows then I really hope that you could get a bonus of sorts for wearing skins and furs of larger more robust animals. If rainy weather effects ever make it into the game like others have suggested, maybe wearing skins and furs could give a dry and warmth bonus in wet environment.

I'd really like to know if the tunic is at least as warm as the hoodie.

To me...a hoodie is a cloth pull-over sweatshirt. It's useful as hell, but it's by no means the holy grail of outdoor wear. If I could skin animals & create a leather buckskin outfit, that would be far preferable for extended outdoor exposure.

Since the hoodie can be worn in conjunction with the squirrel tunic, this really isn't much of an debate. I think the bigger issue goes back to expanding the hunting/trapping/crafting aspect of the game.

"Principles have no real force except when one is well-fed." - Mark Twain

I totally agree.

I, too, felt very disappointed when I finished my squirrel tunic. Took me 4 tries to compleate one .. was always dying in between. After several hours of playing I finally succeeded in the task, and was happy as one can be, until I realized that ...

A) The tunic has nearly no additional warmth/clothing effect
B) You are unable to access the pockets of the hoodie
C) Is worth less than the squirrel pelts themselfs

Maybe Dan is right, that the people in the DMC are not willing to pay much for the tunic, but this also applies to much of the other scavenging goods, such as sleeping bags (they have beds in the city, so they should drown in sleeping bags). On the other hand, food is pretty cheap in the market, which is in contrast to the fact, that this should be one of the things not being able to be produced in the city itself. This leads to the thought, that the market is mostly an outdoor-outdoor market anyways.

In the contrary, how could such a fine tunic be without interest to the residents of the city ? It consists of A-class cozy finest squirrel pelt, is 100% natural and does not compare in any way to the artificial fake fur pelts they may have in the city. In fact, real fur could be considered a luxury item in the DMC area, because it features some kind of relation to nature, which is something being absent in the city walls and most residents are afraid of getting in touch with by themselfs. Everyone can wear SynthaFurr(TM), but the real thing is quite rare (espeacially when considering, that a professional trapping skill level should be quite rare). More so, that the squirrel pelt tunic is so hard to aquire, that there is nearly noone willing to sell it after struggling so hard for it. Real fur is quite expensive today, more so in a post-apocalyptic world where everyone is firstly thinking of themselfs.

Considering game mechanics, the tunic is quite a milestone of craftsmanship. It should be rewarded as such or otherwise noone will care to craft it, because it is considered useless. And an item not being crafted/used is an item not worth the time spent programming it. The tunic should have some decent weather protection, a high durability and maybe some armor effects (e.g. reduce probability of cut severety by 10%). Maybe it should also be somewhat beneficial for hiding purposes: Dogmen and animals may take its scent to be just a squirrel not worth investigating, and its colour pattern is quite camouflage.

Also, normal cloathing should tear down much faster. T-shirts, jeans, and hoodies are a plentiful resource. And using such inappropriate cloathing while running through the wilderness of the wastelands or climbing through the ruins of the cities, being confronted with pointy sticks, thorned tendrils, sharp rocks, scrap metal, and dogmen claws, it shouldn't take long for them to hang in rags. Leathery ourfit, on the contrary, should be much more robust, warm and durable.

If you think, the tunic is crafted too easily, you could consider, that normal skins need to be tanned in order to be made to last. Boiling 3 squirrel pelts in a mixture of 5 parts tannin tea and one part ash (from camp fire) inside a metal sauce pan (or a larger kettle) should do the trick to make them durable, otherwise they could slowly rot/dry out. This would add an additional complexity level to the creation process (and add some use to the ash as well), because water and time management is getting trickier.

Edit: I just remembered, tannin tea is only available to those with botany, so one would also be dependable on finding/buying it in order to produce high quality leathery cloths when not having both botany and trapping skills. Maybe one could have a normal squirrel pelt tunic, as it is now, made from raw pelts, and a high quality one made from tanned ones, which is much more durable and expensive. Looks good to me.

Just my 2 cents ...

GAME OVER
Player was gored and eaten by a sabretooth tiger.
Survival Time: 48 days, 16.51 hours.

Hey Ineluki,

Love your thoughts on the tunic. I totally agree.

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Warning: It will be long. Also, I will concentrate on things I disagree with but I'd like for it to remain clear that I bear no ill will toward other posters. It's just that if I fully agree with something, then I don't need to talk about it.
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Since I actually found things like the fact that you can get some resource and use it in a way to achieve something that may be hard, not much profitable but working only for my own satisfaction, well, satisfying, I show up after long time (I don't even remember what the old account was) to add my own opinion in regards to this issue.

I do hope that tunics will remain how they are. They are hard to be made but they're just possibility, they are not meant to be some super apparel. Additionally, player is neither forced nor suggested to make one. It's just his own choice. The only reason balancing would be required is if it's stats would have no sound basis and it would be totally unrealistic. To my knowledge it is not, however.

but this also applies to much of the other scavenging goods, such as sleeping bags (they have beds in the city, so they should drown in sleeping bags).

It is possible and it may be balancing mistake. Though I also assumed that while the city is more or less operational, disparsity between classes of population may mean that actually there'd be quite some squatters putting far more value in things like bags allowing mobility. In the end, it's one of the things that will just need polishing.

Considering game mechanics, the tunic is quite a milestone of craftsmanship. It should be rewarded as such or otherwise noone will care to craft it, because it is considered useless.

Here, I strongly disagree. It's one of sandbox games traits: You CAN do stuff, no matter whether it's of purely aesthetic value or not. I am quite sure some will keep on making tunics just to have said tunics and making them offer bonuses just because they're hard to make is hardly a good way to go. In fact, I hope there will be more recipes in the future that allow making all kinds of interesting things just because player wants to, not because they're some higher tier of particular item group.

It's quite realistic and plausible factor, the same as IRL: While many survivalists learn how to and can make some improvised clothing from skins of animals, they settle for commonly available, comfortable and very practical clothing as can be found in shops as long as it's easily available.

I do agree though. It should have some value and offer at least token protection from the weather and maybe even weaker cuts.

In the contrary, how could such a fine tunic be without interest to the residents of the city ? It consists of A-class cozy finest squirrel pelt, is 100% natural and does not compare in any way to the artificial fake fur pelts they may have in the city. In fact, real fur could be considered a luxury item in the DMC area, because it features some kind of relation to nature, which is something being absent in the city walls and most residents are afraid of getting in touch with by themselfs.

First. It's a matter of how the player conceives things especially since there's no real detailed description of final product's quality but I honestly doubt that regular person without extensive training would be able to make the item as suggested. I remind you all that said tunic is made by some hobo who just skinned some squirrels with a knife and then combined skins together. It's not a product resulting from the work of several facilities where the materials would be processed by qualified workers.

Given how primitive are facilities to make such tunic I also assume the level is the same: like in prehistoric times, it's basically a bunch of flea-infected, ragged skins sewn together, smelly and slightly rotting because of crude processing. Rather obvious why it costs less than the skins it's made out of.

Also, as you've mentioned - nature is not how it is seen nowadays. Outside is not a pleasant place full of flowers and cute bunnies. Most citizens avoid it for the right reason and I'd bet they don't care much about getting close to it. Also, the fashion is probably not functioning the same way it is now. Now, furs are of demand because some clothers made out of them are fashionable. I suspect though that in DMC most citizens prefer cheap, practical but quality clothes and the rich folks are rich enough to have their fur clothes made by proper specialists with the use of proper tools, not some suspicious guy who walked around neighbouring forests butchering squirrels.

Everyone can wear SynthaFurr(TM), but the real thing is quite rare (espeacially when considering, that a professional trapping skill level should be quite rare). More so, that the squirrel pelt tunic is so hard to aquire, that there is nearly noone willing to sell it after struggling so hard for it. Real fur is quite expensive today, more so in a post-apocalyptic world where everyone is firstly thinking of themselfs.

That is a matter of speculation. It may be very much possible that actually there are whole rows of trappers regularly visiting DMC to trade or living there and regularly going out to get more skins. Also, 'in world where everyone think of themselves' the quality goods most easily available are the best ones - actually skins being rare would make it even more convincing for regular person to get just some set of cotton clothes and a durable synthetic jacket. I sure would, in a choice between such and a fancy fur which may last me as long, attract attention of bandits, be less practical and cost me far more money - money which I could use for much more vital things like edibles.

Not to mention that funnily enough, the very reason that some synthetic furs nowadays are more common and available is because people prefer them - cheaper, more nature-friendly (on the account of not, you know, requiring anyone to kill anything), easily acquirable and always of high quality (at least as far as aesthetics go) in comparison with the 'real deal'.

Also, normal cloathing should tear down much faster. T-shirts, jeans, and hoodies are a plentiful resource. And using such inappropriate cloathing while running through the wilderness of the wastelands or climbing through the ruins of the cities, being confronted with pointy sticks, thorned tendrils, sharp rocks, scrap metal, and dogmen claws, it shouldn't take long for them to hang in rags. Leathery ourfit, on the contrary, should be much more robust, warm and durable.

Agreed. But again, only partially. Depending on the materials and quality, some jeans, hoodies etc can last one quite long (in fact, jeans shortly after invention were suggested as a durable work clothing able to withstand quite some tear and wear). Leather may still be more durable, but it's not exactly leather processed the same as the one you see in most clothing shops - leather, light, shiny pants people buy in the cities often are actually of subpar durability to quality jeans. The durable ones, because of how they're tanned are usually too stiff and heavy for regular consumer to enjoy. Though again, it's not a rule and I am sure there's quite some both durable and comfortable quality wear. But it stands out rather than is a standard.

Great post... I was gonna say something similar, after all the hard work we go thru to manufacture the tunic, at least it should give some kind of immunity to dogmen.