Weapons, butchery and canibalism

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Weapons, butchery and canibalism

I like the fact that weapon stats are hidden, but wonder if there should be some basic information to allow intelligent choices.

My personal take on current weapons would be something like:

Crowbar - moderate damage, good parry, bonus in scavenging
Wrench - good damage, moderate parry, minor bonus in scavenging, some use in crafting (I'm assuming this is a big wrench)
Cleaver - heavy damage, poor parry, use in butchery (see below)
Pan - poor damage, poor parry, crafting
Stick - poor damage, moderate parry
multitool - moderate damage, no parry

A new food source is butchering corpses. Perhaps canibalism is a step too gruesome for the game? But otherwise eating defeated foes might be an emergency source of food. A cleaver, a multitool and tracking skill all increase the chance of getting meat.
However, due to the disgusting quality of the meat there's a chance for nausea and vomiting.
Human flesh would be extremely nauseating, while dogman flesh would be less so but also less nutritious (I imagine they're pretty stringy)
Depending on what new enemies are added to the game this option might become more important


While I disagree with cannibalism, as its losses outweigh its benefits (seriously, not only can you get some nasty diseases, the problems with eating predator flesh are cubed by eating human flesh) I heartily agree with eating Dogmen.

Seriously, I cannot hate those fuckers more. Hard to kill, and NEVER have anything useful.

I prepared Explosive Runes this morning!

That would be a pretty interesting moral decision if it was available in game. Personally I am ok without it though. As far as dogman goes, for me it lacks the morality hook and i wouldn't consider it canibalism. I guess if it came down to it i could indulge in some dogman and still sleep at night.

Re: weapon stats, I've tried to keep many things "behind the scenes" because I thought it would add to the game's immersion.

E.g. nobody knows whether a wrench or a crowbar is technically better, but through personal use, you've found that the wrench tends to yield more damage. You've also found that the cleaver causes "heavy" damage by comparison, though they operate on completely different scales (blunt vs. laceration trauma).

What's more, most people will imagine more depth than is really there if they don't know how the system works. As humans, it's our nature to apply patterns and systems to input data, random or not.

So I'll probably try to keep the veil of secrecy as long as possible, and if it is failing somewhere, try to fix it rather than replace it with open rules. (Of course, this all goes out the window once modding tools are released :)

As for cannibalism, I've been treading a fine line in my representation in-game. In plot encounters, I've been trying to keep cannibalism something that happens, but not making it something the player participates in. I could be overestimating the big-deal-ness of it, of course. But for now, I haven't found a need to make it a thing.

Dogmen, on the other hand, seem to be fair game every time they come up. As mentioned in the more craftable items feature, getting hide from a dogman is on the table. Getting meat from one is probably no worse than skinning and cooking a bear or tiger, for most folks.

When that time comes, it might make sense to switch "squirrel meat" to "hunk of meat," and just start making creatures leave corpses with x hunks of meat plus fur in them.

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

I'd keep Squirrel and Dogman flesh separate items.

Why? Different types of meat are suited for different preparations. Squirrel meat is tender compared to some, and dogman flesh is going to be extremely tough due to the constant work it receives.

Adding to this, when more vegetables are added, more food types would be nice-soups and stews, roasts that take an entire turn to cook, pot roasts to leave while you go out scavenging, etc.

Even a 'tomato soup' made from ten ketchup packets and a bottle of water.

I prepared Explosive Runes this morning!

Ya id go with that. It’s the Apocalypse is I am hungry and u tried to kill me I’d eat u

Did you not read what I said earlier in the thread?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmissible_spongiform_encephalopathy is the least of your worries when eating human flesh. Eating the flesh of any predator means you've eaten what they've eaten-for good or ill. Consider everything present in the human body and ask yourself-would you really want to engage in cannibalism?

I prepared Explosive Runes this morning!

Lol, the prion disease gets way too much love when cannibalism is mentioned. When faced with famine and dying of starvation it's pretty much a no-brainer, especially in a post apocalyptic world. Due to our ancestors having been quite OK with the concept, many of us actually have evolved protection against brain diseases that can spread through consumed flesh. Add a bit of thought to the process and cook your fresh meal properly, and you'll see that stuff going through your metabolism is not quite the same as taking a blood transfusion from a diseased individual.
Furthermore, a lively, physically fit assailant that charges at you, is likely to be healthy enough himself. Harboring the idea that only herbivores are safe to eat is ridiculous. Additionally one probably would not opt for an extended life span in a polluted post apocalyptic world, at least not in the ridiculously idealistic fashion that one might be able to survive in the battle of the fittest by short-handing oneself of available nutrients. If one were to catch a prion disease, it'd likely still be the least of ones worries in the hostile world of post apocalypse.
AFAIK properly cooked (own) living human flesh is the best available food source, nutrient vise, for us humans - thus the clone farms in some sci-fi settings.

..and rather than reference to transmissable spongiform encephalopathy, it's best to link to the source:

God promised an end to all wicked people. Odin promised an end to all Ice Giants. I don't see any Ice Giants...

up vote that...my thoughts exactly;

My best game so far, where I traveled most of the map and acquired a large number of items, was my man-hunter build.
Tough, Strong, Athletic, Melee, Eagle Eye, Insomniac. His job was to murder everything on the map. Very successful.
My main downfall ended up being able to secure enough food. Most of the looters he killed, maybe two dozen, were all killed for their food/water, but there wasn't enough to food to loot, hence the end.
But, in role-playing terms, a character like that would realistically resort to cannibalism. He is already hunting people, looters or raiders, why not eat them proper?

Almost all post-apocalyptic themes and settings feature cannibalism.
Humans, when threatened with starvation, will resort to cannibalism.
There is very strong evidence to suggest cannibalism was practiced by many cultures, without necessity.

But, I'm no doctor, I was under the assumption that cooking meat generally removed much of the most threatening bacteria.
I'm going to even go as far as to say that drinking a filthy puddle of water on the street is more dangerous than the ingestion of properly cooked human flesh.


Love the cannibalism idea. Great for role playing. For a post-apocalypse survival RPG, this seems like an obvious thing to add.

I think we should at least see some dead bodies on the floor. It adds fear and suspense. Like walking into a forest and seeing a dead raider. You know there's probably something around that killed it, so your best chance would be to get out of there quickly.

~The Pirate