Beds, Toilets, and Physiology

Still plugging away at some more physiological modeling in the prototype.

In NEO Scavenger, I did a lot of research to come up with a simulation model for hunger, thirst, fatigue, and other bodily effects. I'd like to carry all of this over to the ship crew simulation in the new game. And I'd like to take that a bit further with things like waste management, hygiene, and other things which become critical in a closed system (i.e. spaceship).

So today, I learned that the average human defecates 1.2 times per day, between 95-450g of matter. They also urinate 1.4l per day, on average. All of that has to go someplace on a spaceship, and making sure those tubes and storage/processors are running will be a big part of the fun. (For real, I think this will be fun.)

I've started creating a chain of conditions and trigger thresholds for poop, similar to the way hunger worked in NEO Scavenger. I'll probably do the same for urination. Then, I need to make some interactions to relieve these pressures periodically. And for that, we need a proper tool:

IMAGE(http://bluebottlegames.com/img/screenshots/screenshot-2016-05-06.png)

Toilets! And beds?

They're just quick-n-dirty sprites for space toilets. But I hope to have them hooked-up such that AI use them periodically during their tour of socializing and need-fulfilling. And the beds? Well, I just redid them to make them nicer than the old, super-long foam slabs that didn't make sense in zero-g.

Not quite running yet, so I can't tell how this looks. But it should be happening soon. (Exciting, I know!)

Anyway, hope you have a good weekend, and see you Monday!

Comments

Malacodor's picture
Malacodor

Won't there be artificial gravity?

How about implementing an Omniprocessor?

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

matsy's picture
matsy

Can you make it so crew members shoo other crew members out if they are insecure about peeing / pooing / showering in front of others? I am thinking Sims style, but I like the idea that some crew members just don't give a [email protected]!* and do it anyway, giving a negative relationship status to the person who doesn't like going with others..

dcfedor's picture
dcfedor

@Malacodor, probably no artificial gravity in the tech sense. I'd like for ship tech to be a bit more realistic/near-future, and we don't currently have any research to suggest gravity control is almost ready for use.

However, faking gravity by accelerating at 1G with the "floor" facing opposite the direction of acceleration, that'll work. And for long journeys, it'll probably be "on" most of the time. (Accelerate halfway there, and decelerate the other half, with short windows of zero-G for maneuvering.)

Processing of poop, however, will totally be a thing :)

@matsy, if I see a way to do so, I'll try! Totally fits with the crew drama sim :)

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

linibot's picture
linibot

I was just listening to this "roguelike radio" episode and the devs of UnRealWorld and Dwarf Fortress were explaining why going to the toilet is hardly ever properly simulated in games. Then again they were also wishing there was a game that simulated specific aspects of combat (like for example weapon reach and making combat avoidance more common) which sounded a lot like things NEO already does with some success. My take from this: there's hope yet for your poop sim, apparently you're wildly innovative. XD


NEO Scavenger: FAQ
10 Ways (not) to Die - A beginner's guide

dcfedor's picture
dcfedor

What did they cite as the reason for not including poop? I'm a little surprised to hear either of them shy away from the challenge of simulating something because it's too banal. Dwarven plumbing, in particular, seems like it'd be a fascinating topic!

I think there's room for this game to innovate on combat, as well. Most of the space sims coming out have ship-to-ship combat, dogfighting, or fleet battles. Almost none of them treat combat as a thing to be avoided.

Combat in this game is going to be seeing a heat signature from a million km away and tracking it's movements to see if it's going to intercept. Deciding whether to use LADAR or wait for fear of inciting an attack. And when the inevitable high-velocity cloud of shrapnel approaches, choosing which god to pray to :)

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

linibot's picture
linibot

It WAS surprising, which is why it stuck with me. They filed it under "no one wants to have to worry about that", with an exception for simulating sanitation systems in architecture-heavy games. They both clearly had a problem with asking the player to manage a pooping need, which is weird. The Sims and Space Colony were doing it 15 years ago and no one batted an eyelid. Still, interesting interview.

Which reminds me, Space Colony! Ever played it? If not, you may wonna take a quick look at it, if only just on youtube. It's Sims meets Stronghold in space, a colony and personnel management sim/rts oldie. It's a bit skin deep but includes a lot of the elements you want to add. Even though I could pull it apart nowadays for all its faults, I played it to bits back in the day, and I still remember it fondly.

Re: Combat, I like that direction. Capsule was a weird lil indie game that taught me that staring at a radar screen and trying to avoid threats can constitute gameplay all on its own. ;)


NEO Scavenger: FAQ
10 Ways (not) to Die - A beginner's guide

Rovlad's picture
Rovlad

I must say I'm not sure if I want to micromanage crew's bowel movements either. There is a reason why this subject is more or less avoided in media (unless we're talking low brow humor or uh, very specific communities).

matsy's picture
matsy

I'd like to think the crew members would take themselves to the toilet, rather than the player having to micro-manage in taking their pants down and wiping their bottoms...

Bowel movements, and sanitation fits perfectly with what dcfedor is trying to do with this game, and I think it is overlooked in a lot of games. Which I think is strange, considering TV and Movies regularly portray people dying on the toilet.

dcfedor's picture
dcfedor

I'm picturing less micromanagement and more emergent crises if the ship lacks proper facilities.

E.g. in Rimworld, the crew go about their business without any input from the player apart from a global job queue. If they're hungry, they seek food. If they're cold, they wear a parka. If they need for something that isn't available, they suffer and eventually break down. There is some micromanagement in combat, or forcing an AI to focus on a task they've been ignoring. But for the most part, no need to tell crew to use the facilities.

In this case, maybe the more prudish crew try to hold it in until they get impacted stool or a GI infection. While others just "go in the corner somewhere" and deal with the sanitation drop in other ways. (Low spirits when in the "poop room" or sickness if not able to stay hygienic.) The thing the player will have to do is:

a) provide the facilities when building a ship
b) encourage repairs when the facilities break down (unless motivated handyman on the crew does it first)
c) encourage medical care if broken facilities result in ailments (again, unless their AIs do it first)
d) provide psychological care if the lack of facilities drives crew crazy (either on-board stress-relief or hiring a counselor)
e) encourage cleaning up the mess (unless a neat freak/paid janitor does it first)

"Encourage" here means ensuring it's in the ship's duty queue, and someone is both able to do it and allowed to do it. And if they aren't getting around to it, maybe incentivizing them.

But yeah, I don't want to be micromanaging a whole crew from minute-to-minute either :)

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games