Extended NeoScav Mod

1918 posts / 0 new
Last post

Sure, Linibot suggested the ability to repair the automatic door system in some buildings, which will decrease the chances of NPCs to get to your stuff.

Also, what do you mean by storage feature? You mean like ways to increase inventory space in these places?

Pew pew pew!

I meant a way to safely store gear and such in a campsite without other people stealing it whenever you leave the hex, this would give more reasons to build a main base sort of hex where you can drop usefull loot you cant bring with you. I think this could be done with the automatic door system you were talking about but also more easily with a safe or a hidden hole in the ground. Even more lethal alternative like a tripwire system similar to those in metro 2033 where they would attach a wire to a lighter whom would ignite a shotgun shell if pulled.

A safe would be too much but ways to increase the Camp Concealment is ok. The automatic door system will only be available in office buildings, though. For other buildings, I think being able to build barricades will do a similar effect at the cost of using a bit of room in your campsite.

Also, we can't really implement traps for NPCs in the game... but speaking of Metro, maybe I could implement a cheaper but weaker sound traps, Scattered Glass on the ground.

Pew pew pew!

would it be possible to give the fire axe the ability to break into locked buildings?

Maybe the ability to break thru barricaded buildings, like claw hammers do. I wanna leave the locked storage only for crowbars and shotguns with the right ammo.

The only barricaded building so far is the barricaded gun store but I will add more of those.

Pew pew pew!

according to new electric update. is it possible to have electric shock condition with broken outlets, lights without protective handwear? it could be rubber gloves or craftable stuff from rags and duct tape. in fact there could be no access to power tap without such protection. at least it would solve a bit the problem of eternal charges gathering.

That's a pretty good idea. I've been trying to come up with something to deal with the infinite electricity thing. They could also degrade pretty quickly.

Either that or just make it so gathering power degrades the power tap quickly.

Pew pew pew!

Degradation would make sense. Despite the player fixing the outlet, these are old buildings in total disrepair. It should just be a matter of time before a fuse blows, or the wiring burns out, necessitating another fix. It would be nice if there were a chance for the outlet to disappear, altogether, to simulate the outlet completely frying with no chance of repair. A chance to start a fire would be nice, too, but probably not possible (unless you were to damage the player and turn the outlet into a small fire object)

Speaking of degrading, I have found that the Hacksaw and Sewing Needles degrade too quickly. 10% per use is an awful lot. Maybe 5% would feel more realistic.

it's ok for wasteland, but for those in sprawl i think it's just normal functioning city's resource which is free for steal.

Hmm... a chance for the outlet to be damaged beyond repair would kinda defeat the purpose of base building, though. Unless I allow players to repair it somehow. Maybe I could make it so when that happens, players can get working fuses from another building, removing the power outlet from them. There's a problem with this... and that is all other appliances will still work somehow. A way to deal with this other issue would be for them to directly use charges put in them, and drain them like flashlights or computers.

Also, yeah. I read somewhere hacksaw blades don't last much before they lose sharpness. The Sewing Needles degrade fast because there is a better option you can loot. But ok, I will decrease their degrade rate a bit so it's a bit more realistic.

Pew pew pew!

I like the idea of putting charges in to make them work, but realistically a stove would use a lot of electricity. I think we worked it out in another thread, assuming 50% efficiency, that the amount of charges in a laptop battery would boil around 6 units of water. That's only two pans worth. It is nice tho, because with a laptop battery in hand, one could use the appliances without access to the power grid (imagine hooking the battery up to the appliance), and would functionally be unlimited in use if the campsite has electricity (barring the fuse blowing, if that is implemented).

Also, we know that the Cryo Facility has power. Why not have an outlet there?

I've often thought there could be some other gear there, too. Like the medkit and multitool, but requiring various skills. Maybe as a nod to Philip's former life, stashed in a locker somewhere in there, some items that he wanted to have access to when he woke up, like some pocket change (default), a phone with some pictures of his family (hacking, electrician), a flask with a sip of whiskey (alcoholism), a half-empty pack of cigarettes and a mostly empty lighter (smoker), a handful of gummi bears (high metabolism), a broken pair of glasses (myopia), or maybe a pocket knife that his father gave him (melee, trapping). You know, little things that wouldn't help survival much, but help round out the character in a realistic way.

And hacksaws do dull quickly, but not after cutting only 10 branches. They would be duller by that point, but not unusable.

Oh, and I know I throw a lot of ideas around, but I just keep thinking them up, and I've gotta tell someone.

Well, the power tap from power outlets already use a laptop battery to "gather and store" power. I'll wait until enough electrician stuff is implemented to start rebalancing them later.

I guess it couldn't hurt to add a power outlet in the cryo facility. It's on buildings more damaged than this one so why not.

I like the idea of having more starting gear options. There needs to be some balance, since some skills are more useful than others. Not all skills/flaws should have this option.

Pew pew pew!

Bug report. Can't extinguish medium campfire. I found dogman corpse and can't make ash for meat. =(
After crafting Moonshine a shirt disappeared.

Thanks for reporting that one. I missed some 0: in a new ingredient that prevents kitchen stoves from being extinguished. :P
Will be fixed in the upcoming bugfix.

Pew pew pew!

Another bug? Fermenting mash can be crafted with many ingridients - when I use pure ones like sugar outcome is 100% condition fermentation mesh, but when I use bad ingridients like berry with low condition it gives mesh with 1% or 0.4% (fast moonshine).

Moonshine has been implemented several updates ago. This bug has been there for a while. :O
The fix will be in the upcoming hotfix.

Pew pew pew!

Idea for tracking skill. Make some legendary persons and monsters. Player should track them through events. For example - white dogman (it can be intelligent - talk or maybe even trade if you know the right way to deal with him).

Botany make a plant that scares away dogmen - I asked already (first encounter in crio).

And great and immortal core game bug with binoculars and strap (I pointed it ages ago).

I could add some more encounter choices for those with the tracking skill but nothing as fancy.

Also, I remember. As I mentioned before, the binoculars bug can only be fixed by Dan, you should report that bug in the technical support section.

Pew pew pew!

btw no matter what option you choose in wood gathering with hacksaw you always get large branch only. is it how intended?

Yes, gathering a Large Branch tires the player a lot more than any gathering option unless you use a hacksaw or axe.

Pew pew pew!

i see. but it seems unbalanced a bit. you can gather up to 10 medium branches at 100% condition for 20 fatigue points. and for the same cost you can gather one large branch wich is only 3 medium branches in addition with tool degradation and action points loss. there's fDurability paramater for item. don't know how much it's usefull, but i think it's possible to add weathered copy of medium branch item spawned only in case of wood gathering witout tool and vanila branch item to large branch gathering. so there would be two branches, one to craft and one to burn.

Yes but you can't make spears with Medium Branches. You can't turn those 3 branches back into a Large Branch. Also, there's no action point loss, just tool condition. Spears are easy to make and powerful weapons so this is to kinda rebalance that a bit.

Pew pew pew!

and whatever bows too))

Hotfix time. The changes are:

-Fixed the broken mulligan stew recipes. There's also a new recipe that allows the use of baked potatoes and halves of bread as ingredients.
-The Cryo Facility campsite now has a Power Outlet.
-Fixed the bug with the "extinguish medium campfire" recipe.
-Fixed a bug with a recipe spawning already degraded Fermenting Mash.

Pew pew pew!

Apart from the rest of the electrician stuff I want to implement, ppl in Steam have suggested more food or ingredient choices for the mulligan stew. I'm not sure if it's really necessary to add more but eggs is the most common suggestion I get from my Steam contacts.

I don't think chicken would survive the new wilderness of Michigan so if I add eggs, they would be probably sold in markets only. Probably more easily available in the ATN Store.

Someone else suggested eggs could also be from birds, which can be scavenged from forests but I don't know. Forests already offer a lot of food, specially for those with the Botany Skill. Maybe I could make it so those with the tracking or trapping skill can find them instead. I'm more inclined towards the tracking skill for this not only coz the trapping skill needs more features but also coz it makes more sense for a tracker to find bird nests, IMO.

Also, apart from being an ingredient for the Mulligan Stew, I guess I could also make it so players can make fried eggs with them. Also maybe a pretty basic cake with flour, sugar, eggs and water.

Pew pew pew!

I actually added this in MoD, some time ago - I agree that chickens would hardly be available, outside of civilized locations, so went for quail eggs. Quails are actually living in Michigan, their eggs are eaten across the world though they are smaller than the chicken ones.

I too made them findable via scavenging with Tracking skill (along with nuts) - the action is called "Try to locate animal nests or winter stores". And because quails nest on the ground and, similarly, many squirrels hide their stores in holes in the ground, it makes sense to be able to find those food types by following the animal tracks.

<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
DeviantArt Gallery of MoD Sprites

You beat me to it then. xD

I'll just shelve the idea, then. I don't want to give mod merges a hard time. :P

Pew pew pew!

Then go for some other kind... wild turkey eggs, maybe? Those would be mainly findable one open fields instead of forests.

Cause, to be honest, the eggs of the wild birds are some of the very basics of any survival/primitive sustenance.

<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
DeviantArt Gallery of MoD Sprites

Hmmm... maybe. Nobody loot open fields and they are not really common so I like the idea. I added a Loner Hunter accident in open fields so maybe using the tracking skill there could increase both the chance of finding eggs and the chance for that accident to happen.

I could also add another scavenging area instead, tree tops. All players could find eggs from nests in these. The Tracking Skill would raise the chance to find eggs and reduce the chance for accidents, which could include falling from trees.

Pew pew pew!

it must be very rare item according to the game's plot that all bird's food were spoiled with genetic expirements


According to the really old newspaper clippings:

Bird is the Word
State biologists are trying to determine what killed an estimated 500 birds in Point Coupee Parish. Authorities say the birds all suffered from spontaneous blood clots, falling suddenly along a 10-mile stretch of Louisiana Highway 1. This comes just three days after more than 3,000 blackbirds fell from the sky in Beebe, Arkansas, also without explanation.

The Swedish Death
Reports of mass extinction events are on the rise, as thousands of birds and other animals are found dead around the world. The Falkoeping incident in Sweden represents the latest event. &quot;We have received information from local residents last night that the birds just started falling suddenly, with no apparent cause.&quot; There is growing concern around the world that these clustered deaths are related, with some religious groups claiming this establishes a timeline for Judgment Day.</column>

However, there is also this:

Edge of the Forest
You hear no rustling of leaves, no birds, no scrapings of small rodents through the undergrowth. The wood is soundless, mute, expectant. Like a predator about to pounce, it appears silently poised, anticipating the movement of its prey.

The Great Black Swamp cont'd
And the silence here is deafening. No birds, nor critters. Not even insects. Nothing stirs in this caustic swamp of destruction.

Sweet and sour seagull wings
"Didja know seagull's a land bird" the cook shouts over the fans and sizzling. "Easy to catch, too!" he guffaws.

Not only that, but if you mute the music in-game, you can hear the chirping of birds!

In the Black Swamp and Edge of the Forest descriptions, the lack of birds is enough of a difference to be remarkable, and apparently seagulls are still common enough to be used as food. So I think we can logically assume that some birds do still exist. The only two we can say for sure do exist are songbirds and seagulls (and probably some genetically modified chicken-things from a lab in DMC). That should be enough.

I would say, also crows should still exist, since corvids are some of the smartest birds known, and their propensity for picking up little shinnies would make coming across one of their nests a real treat.

I totally forgot about that. xD
There's fried chicken being sold at the Red Gnome, now that I remember.

There's also this line:
"Plus, there aren't a lot of chickens running around out in the wilderness, let alone deep-fryers. Must be some sort of vertical farm around here. No room for anything but."

Pew pew pew!

Mkay, so then... what about:

-Chicken eggs are available in the Junk Market. There could be a minimal chance to find Chicken Eggs in Farming Plots if you use the Tracking Skill there.
-Wild Turkey eggs are available in the ATN Market and can be scavenged from nests in Open Fields. The Tracking Skill should increase the chance to find some but also the chance to trigger the Loner Hunter encounter.
-Crow Eggs can be scavenged from nests on Tree Tops. The Tracking Skill should increase the chance to find some and reduce the chance for accidents like falling down the tree. Chance to find other stuff in their nests.


Pew pew pew!

How about being able to actually hunt birds? Using a bow as a scavenging tool with arrows as charges, acting similarly to squirrel snares.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Gariba's Extras and Miscellaneous:

Hmm... Sure it's doable but it would require different scavenging locations because it would be weird to also find berries, mushrooms and the like from the vanilla locations unless there's a way to only spawn items related to that particular choice.

Pew pew pew!

Well, the action point cost reflects the time spent searching around, and when looking at the squirrel snare, it's as if the player set them somewhere, went around foraging, then came back to see if he caught something. If you think a bit Katniss, you can shoot birds you spot while foraging, and in the meantime your snares will be awaiting prey.

However, different scavenging locations is better for hunting for food when you need it as opposed to giving you a ton of fruits and animals that will spoil before you get hungry enough for it all.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Gariba's Extras and Miscellaneous:

VERY much like. But I would say the bird nests should be songbirds primarily, with just a chance of the nest turning out to belong to a crow (in which case, fewer eggs, more shiny).

Also, regardless of the type of nest, there should be a semi-decent chance of string, paper, and twigs. Birds love that kind of stuff.

I just googled songbird eggs and they are a bit too small... small enough for them to need different recipes that require more eggs for cooking.

Pew pew pew!

Some thoughts on fabric weight:

Handrags weigh 0.5kg, which is more than a pair of Spacewalk shoes, as much as a pair of jeans, and each one as heavy as a hoodie! At 0.5 kg each, they do weigh less than 4 dirty rags, but the rags also weigh quite a lot at 0.15 kg (150 grams) each. Looking up measures of cloth weight, usually measured in grams per square meter (GSM), and using the size of the cloth in game (2/3 as short as a shoe, 1/2 as tall as a shoe wide, therefore about 20 cm * 13 cm), I came to a rough estimate of the fabric weight of a dirty rag at around 5750 GSM! For reference, Egyptian cotton is around 1000 GSM, a winter hoodie is 500 GSM, and most t-shirts are around 150 GSM.

These measurements square nicely when you take the surface area of the average person, and calculate how much 500 GSM fabric covering their whole body would weigh. The answer comes out to about 0.95 kg. And a hoodie plus a pair of blue jeans weighs 1 kg, in game. So that is pretty much confirmation that this method is very sound.

At around 500 GSM, a rag around 20 cm * 13 cm, weighs in at about 0.013 kg. That puts the Handrags at roughly 0.05 kg, the Footrags at 0.08 kg, and the Headrags at 0.1 kg. And all this would, of course, make a handful of string effectively weightless in comparison. Maybe 1/10th the weight (to match the rags). The game doesn't show the numbers below 10 grams, but it calculates just fine. The medium string becomes 0.01 kg, and the string rope can stay where it is (just because).

Now, string is already balanced by the inventory space that it takes up, but it is a little strange to only get one single string from a rag so large. Maybe if you could get a random number of them, from 1-5.

Additionally, one piece of duct tape weighs 110 grams! Again, this is very high. A full roll of duct tape weighs around 15 oz (which is 0.42 kg), and since there are 20 in a roll, each piece comes out to be 0.021 kg. 42 is a good number, don't you agree?

I am testing these changes in my game to see if it throws anything off. So far, so good.

Sure, all of this makes sense. :O
I can add these changes now for the next update.

Pew pew pew!

and could you pls minimize action point cost for lit cigarette recipe

The clean rags and bandages are similarly too heavy. Without doing the math, an extra zero to make them 1/10th the weight should suffice.

And I have been noticing that the Minor Fatigue condition used for gathering supplies is a tad too powerful. One could spend a single turn (about an hour or so) gathering rocks and water, and pass out from sleepiness. I realize there is no separate tired vs sleepy stat, but to black out from the equivalent of wandering a lake shore splashing around in the water and looking at the pretty rocks is a bit harsh, especially considering the average character could run flat out for the same amount of time and just be winded. Possibly half the fatigue penalty would be appropriate.

I have also found the power outlet repair broken in my copy of 4.0b. Looking for what is wrong, I looked up the recipe, which calls for an ingredient with id 0:40. I could find no such ingredient.

One feature suggestion, small chance for water to be found in city hexes or campsites. Pretty much guaranteed to be bad, but some might be connected to wells or city resource. Could either be a sink, a broken pipe, or a puddle.

Also, like nin4 said, cigarette lighting should almost be a free crafting job. Getting the flame is the "hard" part. Lighting it takes only a second.

(If you can't tell, I'm focusing on balance and bug suggestions, rather than features)

You would only pass out if you are already tired or spam-gathering materials, the later being the exploit I'm targeting. It's more a bit about balancing than realism in this case. Making a campfire in this game can easily be done with 1 branch and 1 kindling, which is not true if we see it realistically. There's not really a need to gather wood more than once in days. The reason for rocks is because how powerful a sling can be and with the large branch how easy to get a decent long range melee weapon can be from the very beginning.

Ingredient 0:40 is pliers, which is not in the override xml but in the vanilla game one.

Also, you mean lootable water or findable in the hex like random rubble items? You can actually find water, often contaminated, in urban hexes the first time you visit them and the chance is small too.

I agree about the cigarette recipes. Both cigarette lighting and rolling will get a decrease in action points needed to make them.

And thanks for the balance suggestions and discussions, I don't get much of these so they are always welcomed. :3

Pew pew pew!

First I haven't played NSE for a long time but it got even better since last time. I have some ideas for maybe a future update.

Armor since you recently added in tools instead of a tool kit for everything as well as soldering wire I have a suggestion

Chainmail: easily made with the right tools all that is needed are wire cutters, wire, pliers, and a metal rod. By wrapping the wire around the metal links and cutting them you can make 20 to 30 links. Then using the wires you link them together and bend them closed with the pliers. The process takes up to 40 or 50 hours though. The armor itself is extremely flexible and tough and will protect perfectly against sharp objects but not as much against blunt. The final drawback is that it can weigh up to 15 kg depending on the type of metal used.

Another suggestion since tool kits and the like were added

Crossbows: pretty simple in design and bolts are smaller than arrows and they can be made powerful enough to go right through sheets of metal.
There would be two types simple and compound which would require a compound bow and the mechanic as well as ranged. After that to add another draw back you must first whitle a bolt body into the correct size before using it for the bolt requiring at least 2 different crafting sequences whirling and fitting and due to the strength of crossbows the bolts would break after 1 shot unlike modern bolts. (Of course you could add modern bolts as well.)

Cannibal Family Picnic

I don't really want to stray much from the theme of the game and a chainmail is just that. It's a good idea but maybe if the setting was more post-apocalyptic, didn't include guns and high-tech cities still around.

A crossbow is also a good idea even though it would be kinda like a better bow. I will add it to the stuff to implement list.

Pew pew pew!

I understand why Chainmail wouldn't work but I know that Chainmail is still used today such as in shark suit and gloves for carpenters. Also it seems like it would be an effective way to upgrade leather armor by attaching it to key places on the armor such as shoulders and upper body.

Cannibal Family Picnic

Hmm... I just found this site which shows some differences between crows and ravens and I am a bit more inclined for ravens instead. Specially if I am to add the ability to hunt birds later.

The new accidents for the Treetops scavenging locations are also working fine. There are only 2 so far but one of them is like the worst accident in the game. I don't think the damage it causes kills but you will end up with lots of cuts and some moderate bruising to tend if you fall from high enough when climbing trees.

Pew pew pew!

Can I share some thoughts?The craftable weapons(specifically the spiked bat) or the scavangable weapon(Fireaxe,bat).First of all the bat is very rare considering the setting is America,now I'm not implying that you should find bats out of the void but some increase in the spawning chance would be appreciated,Also seeing Bad Mutha's with bats instead of monkey wrench's galore could work,I somehow always end up getting one shotted from a wrench to the head.
Now onto the durability,some of the weapons degrade very...very...veeery quickly.I remember the last time I used a bat it took around 4 % of the durability with 1 hit...again I know they're a piece of wood,but they are made to be durable,same goes for the spiked bat,it degrades waaaaaaaay to quickly.
Also the fireaxe,it's even more rare then the bat,way to rare,I get lucky if I maybe find one in 1 single run alone,also the durability on it is again...not that great.I really just wanted to get this feedback to you and not suggest more features...but I guess it can't be helped.Maybe you could add some sort of regular lumber axe that you could find in forest shacks,ofc it wouldn't be so good as the fireaxe but just having an alternative to this super rare one would be good

Well, remember that there's been 40 or 50 years so the durability in these weapons is not the same.

They are rare not only because of realistic reasons but also because they are really powerful. The Spiked Bat can insta cripple or even insta kill so as a way to keep things balanced, it degrades quickly. It's all about balance and it's realistic too since the more nails you drive in it, the more fragile it gets.

I'm trying to keep the mod fresh but without making it more easy than it already is. This mod makes the game a lot more easy in the end, which is something I want to correct with all this rebalance.

Pew pew pew!

How about making glass shards unusable in arrows and replacing them with metal arrowheads that you can cut from scrap metal with a hacksaw.

Cannibal Family Picnic