Extended NeoScav Mod

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I have two suggestions I would love to see implemented in this awesome mod of yours.

First I would love for some random encounter or scavenge tile to provide some kind of power-source. I was thinking something big and heavy but pretty much guarantees some electric charges. Perhaps a car battery, it could be really heavy but still moveable to allow for storing lots of power in a hideout perhaps. But mostly I'm just interested in a way to get power outside of DMC.

Secondly, what would be awesome, but maybe not possible. Would be random encounter merchants. Either a one time shop with limited supply, or a permanent (Drop a usable tile thingy) with even more limited supply.

On a sidenote, I would love to be able to add straps to the weapons added in this mod (ranged ones). I mean, you crafted a working gun, a strap would be childsplay in comparison.

40 some years on, those batteries would be dead.

Merchants would be cool, tho.

Well, one thing I have noticed in this game is that city hexes outside the DMC do have power. You can tell because they are lit at night and give light bonuses. Maybe I could add something similar to the illegal power taps in the DMC sprawl but deactivated. Electricians could have the ability to re purpose these unmovable items to be able to get power in the same fashion.

Random encounter merchants would be awesome but I wouldn't know how to implement something like that. The closest thing I could do would be something similar to that random encounter dude that sells/scams you a cellphone. I could make something similar but with stuff like a pair of shoes, a pistol, a backpack but they will sell the stuff for the full price or more and give you the items with random conditions. I could also make them disappear after the trade so players don't hunt them down after a bad trade.

Also, I guess you mean the scatter guns. Both of them cannot be put in holsters or strapped. Imma think about it. :P

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I assumed merchants would be hard. Still the mechanics you suggested would be interesting all right, im all for more random encounters.

About the power taps, I think an infinite source would be too powerfull. However, I somewhat disagree that said batteries would be dead. Yes, a battery left alone for 50 years would be dead. But then again, you find working flashlights sometimes, presumably from a survivor. So why couldn't a larger car-battery be a leftover from a survivor, or a caravan perhaps. Either way, I still think it's a good idea.

I just finished with the wearable plastic bags. There's something I never fully understood about the warmth modifiers in conditions...

What's the difference between MinSafeTemp/MaxSafeTemp and BodyInsulation? I want the wearable plastic bag to only keep temperature from dropping rather than raising the "warmth bar" like most clothes do.

Also, I think imma add a new drink in this next update too... wine. It should probably be something in between beer and whiskey. Since it's not as strong as whiskey, it should stacks to 10 units so players will take slightly less "sips" to finish a bottle.

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Ooh, you could have two kinds, the cheap wine, and really good wine. Same effects, but the good stuff sells a lot better (it's a good year)

Hmm... that's actually a good idea.

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is merging extended with Mm impossible because it's alot of work or are they polar oppisets on some mechanics?

OverHaul Mod
DevKit is an upgraded BBC mod.
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NSE edits the main files, directly. MmMod uses a modular form. To make a merge, one would have to remake MmMod for NSE, or recode NSE as a modular file and create an override mod between them.

LOTS of work, either way.

NSE used to edit the main files directly in the old days, all mods did before. This was no longer the case after I ported the old version of this mod to the new modding format on august of the last year.

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so if i'm say...an unemployed person who has time on their hands...i could start merging these and do you think i'd hit any walls? like one mod increases melee damage and the other decreasing melee damage, nothing like that?

OverHaul Mod
DevKit is an upgraded BBC mod.
Improve your mods.

Yes, lots of walls. Most of them will be inside the override xml files of both mods. The game will inevitably load one of these files first, which will render one of the mods unable to be loaded. You will need to merge both override xml files into one and do some decisions in same override codes where both mods make different changes. The rest of the walls you will hit will be rebalancing all the stuff and deciding on similar items that both mods add, like the welding masks.

It will indeed take a lot of time.

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well if it changes the nature of the mods i suppose there is no point then

OverHaul Mod
DevKit is an upgraded BBC mod.
Improve your mods.

Oh, there's a lot going on in the temperature department... I honestly don't like that system too much...


MinSafeTemp - is the lowest acceptable temperature, below it, player starts loosing his core temp. The max is the opposite, obviously, above it, player starts overheating.

By default, the safe values are 82 F(ahrenheit) minimal and 110 F maximal. Rain adds 15 F to those.

Clothes/camp stuff subtract from those base values, i.e. light shirt substracts -3.5 F from min and -3 from max. So in perfect scenario, wearing only a single shirt makes 78.5 F and 107 F your safe temp boundaries. And those all stack of course.

Normal core temp is 96-100 F (35-38 C) The rate at which your temp rises is set - +2.16 F per turn of being overheating. The rate of getting colder is dependent on the outside temp, the colder it is below your MinSafe, the faster you get cold. But...

There is also the BodyInsulation stat. It is completely pulled out of Dans... magic hat. It is a value between 0 and 4. O means you are completely open to outside, so the changes to dropping temp happen at 100% force (so, presumably, if you are 5 F below safe temp, you are loosing 5 F per turn). If insulation is at 4 you are completely secured, and no outside cold is affecting you at all.

Have fun calculating that in real time, with weather changing on turn-by-turn basis :D

<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
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That's a lot of info! Thanks for taking the time. I think BodyInsulation is the stat I'm looking for.

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Just keep in mind that most clothes add a little to the Insulation stat (as well as to the rest, of course). What I found particularly annoying about that is, that while a decision to make some clothes add a certain level of insulation might make sense in the context of that one piece of clothing, it is really easy to make so that wearing it with the rest of vanilla items makes reaching the 4 point mark really easy, making player basically cold immune. Something that should never really happen, in my opinion.

Also, keep in mind I might not be 100% accurate with my observations, so it's always good to double check :D For example, I have not a single clue if Insulation works on warmth, as well as cold... That kind of stuff.

<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
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Hmm... sounds like all clothing could use some rebalance. :P

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Is it weird that I always find the same loot but in different condition inside barricated gun shops?

Nay. It's either that loot or a couple of hostile encounters. I could make it so the loot has some random selections, though.

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Can anyone tell me how to mod neo scav atleast tell me the folder and i can experiment around a bit but im trying to figure out how to mod.

An easy way to learn to mod is to download one and take a look inside. You can also check the sticky threads in the Modding Talk section of this forum.

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Than you after reading the post back it sounded quite aggressive didnt mean for it to come out that way.Sorry!

No worries. It wasn't really agressive, IMO. :P

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also youll learn faster if you decide on one thing you would like to mod and work towards that goal. note i think an encount, new weapon, would be the hardest to start with

OverHaul Mod
DevKit is an upgraded BBC mod.
Improve your mods.

possible bug report related to this mod



OverHaul Mod
DevKit is an upgraded BBC mod.
Improve your mods.

Hmm... I'll do some tests and see if I can reproduce the bug somehow. I've never come across something like that, though.

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it's possible that i messed something up in the merge, but the other guy says he has experienced it with your mod before.

OverHaul Mod
DevKit is an upgraded BBC mod.
Improve your mods.

that guy who reported the bug said it didn't happen with the fishing mod and BBC mod removed. so it might not be your mod, but the other guy did say he experienced with just your mod before. anyway just a heads up

OverHaul Mod
DevKit is an upgraded BBC mod.
Improve your mods.

That would be me. I looked over that install, and as it turns out, I had been using Banjo's full set of combined mods merged with NSE.

Sorry about the confusion!

Also my keyboard is still broken, so this is hard to type!

so i found the bug, it was the fishing mod. the author doesn't seem to be around currently so i posted a reply with a link leading to an updated version

OverHaul Mod
DevKit is an upgraded BBC mod.
Improve your mods.

Question... should the wearable plastic bags on feet remove the barefoot condition? I'm thinking about making them weaker than footrags, of course, but should they also remove barefoot or just give a minimal cold protection?

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for that to really remove the pains of being barefoot you would have to have layers upon layers on top of more layers of bags wrapped around your feet

OverHaul Mod
DevKit is an upgraded BBC mod.
Improve your mods.

Plastic bag shoes: Slightly warmer feet. Still barefoot. Still stubbing toes.
Footrags: Warmer feet. Not barefoot. Still stubbing toes.
Makeshift Rag shoes: Warm feet. Not barefoot. Not stubbing toes.

And all should be better than being actually barefoot.
Reasoning: Are you slower with socks on than barefoot? No, just warmer.

Flip flops are a whole separate issue, tho.

socks are thicker, and actually do make it easier to walk on rocks so not entirely accurate.

OverHaul Mod
DevKit is an upgraded BBC mod.
Improve your mods.

Okay, that's a point, but its not like you don't still feel the sharp rocks. Still, stubbed toes, and better mobility than barefoot.

I say this because "improper footwear" is almost as bad a penalty as Barefoot, even though these options should be better.

So i stayed up all night messing with the xml files but just cant get it lol am i supposed to mess with the xml files?

i wanted to ask you chiko or someone who knows about this status,

i drinked like 1 and half a bottle of the beer you implemented and now i have the need to drink status like the alcoholic flaw and i didn't choose that flaw in the start, does it leave with time or how long it stay's or it's like a bug or something. thanks

melonhead's look inofensive but while you sleep they will try to hit you with a monkey wrench
(based on real events)

Woops, that's definitely something that should not happen. I'll look at the files and see what I missed in the code for that bug to stop happening.

Edit: I did missed something. I forgot to put that condition in the immunity list for non alcoholics. This will be fixed in the upcoming update.

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hi another thing that annoyed me is the known recipes list getting buged like this

i didn't know how to put it in here so here is the link to it, http://kn3.net/316FF89B43APNG.html

melonhead's look inofensive but while you sleep they will try to hit you with a monkey wrench
(based on real events)

I've seen this happen in the vanilla game too. My guess is the recipe at the top is causing it, since it's big enough to use 2 lines, which makes the rest of the recipes to have that space under each of them in that page.

That's a vanilla recipe but I guess I could "cut" some of the text or rename it so it's shorter. Like replace "meat from" with "carve" and "meat and hide from" with "butcher"
That will make the name of the recipes a lot shorter.

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ive never had a bug like that one, and i just play with overhaul. i do get this thing where i cant cycle through my options if i don't have enough movement left

OverHaul Mod
DevKit is an upgraded BBC mod.
Improve your mods.

That's vanilla, and it's tricked me many times. That may be what he's seeing.

at first, i realy like the way you extend the game as for all overhauls.
at second, i can't unpack PharmaCon "FAEB" Emergency Bandages. never found another one package exept that gives with medic skill looting first hex, but i don't think it depends on it. when i click open there's "unable to switch modes on items in a stack" message appears. it was only onetime after multiply game reinstall when i got it right. so i guess maybe the problem is on my end, but i have no clue to solve it.
do you have any ideas to help about it?
i'm using 1.04 update.

Yeah, you need to get one out of the stack to open it. It's a game engine thing. To do that, hold down the shift button while you click the stack.

It will happen the same with flares since they stack too.

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shift rules!
thanks a lot!

Guess it's time for that 3.5 version of the mod, also known as the hobo update. It includes:

-Added a new "clothing" item, Wearable Plastic Bag. It only gives a minimal cold protection. Unlike rags they can be put in the head/hand/foot slot so there's only 1 recipe and 1 ingredient to make one, just a disposable plastic bag.
-Makeshift Sacks can now be used as backpacks. They also add a small weight penalty due to how uncomfortable is to carry stuff in them. The penalty is a bit more severe when the sacks are carried in the hands.
-Added a new container, Bindles. Similar to makeshift sacks, they have a bit less inventory space and use more room but add no weight penalty for carrying them. They can only be carried in the hands. To make one, you need a large shaft, a medium string or strong fastener and a large sheet.
-Added a new alcoholic drink, Wine. A full bottle of it is the most expensive drink you could own. It can only be looted/scavenged which is why they are so expensive. It can stack to 10 max and is between beer and whiskey, alcohol content wise.
-Fixed a bug that caused alcoholic skill conditions to show up in non alcoholic characters.
-Added a recipe to turn 40 Lighter Fluid charges into a unit or "large droplet" version which can be stored in containers. The recipe can of course be reversed to get the charges back. You need 40x charges of lighter fluid, and a fire/water proof container.
-Lighters and lighter fluid are slightly more expensive.
-Added a new way to deal with the Dogman in Cryo Facility encounter. Using Mechanic, Electrician and Hacker skills will allow players to kill the Dogman and get access to its corpse after the encounter.
-Edited all vanilla recipes to get meat or meat and hide from corpses. They are now shorter in name and should stop causing bugs in the recipe list due to the number of recipes added by this mod.

Edit: Made a quick fix to the download link, which is now version 3.5b coz I forgot to remove the testing recipes. :P

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Thanks for the mod its been enjoyable.

After having played it for several days I have some thoughts.

Leather Shoes degrade way to quickly
-Should be the best shoe in the game.
-Player knows it will fit the foot
-Even rawhide would be better than having any ol shoe

Scrap Metal condition is often too low.

Rawhide Longcoat recipe, I cant find it here but I have made it at least once.

Leather Workbelt should be really a rare find, I usually find one of these early in the game. So I don't have a need to craft one which is imbalanced cause its a great item.

Rawhide Quiver, I really like the idea but I find I tend to get a duffle bag pretty quickly in the game.

Some rather big drawbacks to crafting right now.
1) A lot of the items are really heavy.
2) Both "Strong" and "Trapping" feel like they are required for making some of the good items and using them.
3) In some cases you will find the item or a better drop way before the player can scratch together enough stuff to make it.
4) Crafting Moonshine requires both Botany and Medic which seems unrealistic and redundant, due to not really needing to make a disinfectant with Medic Skill. It serves as only a way to make an income and nothing much after that but would be better for a fighting character.
5) Since crafting is really involved and requires that the player has access to either bags, cart (soft dependency), and/or some food supplies it seems to me that the items should be better than stuff that may be pre-apoc.

I think there should be some other items that can be made.

Tarp Back Sack
Rawhide Backpack
Leather BackPack, should be best backpack, it is always super involved to make leather patch.
Leather Pants.
Rawhide Kilt (skirt or whatever to cover up and stay warm)
Knee and Elbow Pads (not sure if the mechanics of the game warrants this but its a safety thing)

It doesn't seem imbalanced to me given that these items have to be crafted using stuff that isn't easily available and often there are more immediate concerns in the early game.

I have had a lot of fun even though I think the above, cant imagine playing without extended mod now.

Would like to see some more packs of enemies not sure what to do once I have Doghide Coat and Head Dress with my current character. I even went on a headbutting spree on frogmen and overcame the plague but that was probably due to having Tough, Metabolism, and getting regular antibotics and rest.

Sorry just a little more.

Alcohol, is pretty important stuff, for drinking actually it would just be safer to only consume beer and wine and still is today in many parts of the world.

See boiling water is kinda gamey mechanic. There are some better methods to make something safe to drink. Wine for the most part was the method for making safe drinks for much of the ancient world. In the ~1780's the method of using a pressure cooker was found to kill bacteria very effectively. Just Boiling water wont completely kill the bacteria that people really need to be concerned about as some bacteria have a way to survive boiling its super complicated to explain but basically you could boil water over and over and never kill this stuff. A pressure cooker on the other hand does the job, meaning this item would be extremely important.

i like what this guy has to say. i haven't beaten the game yet which is why i haven't used your or kaavens mod yet. but when i do i plan on playing both of them. i just made my overhaul mod because i'm finding it fun to mod this game, but also because there were some things in the vanilla game that made it really boring, so i changed the super boring parts

OverHaul Mod
DevKit is an upgraded BBC mod.
Improve your mods.

Thanks for the feedback!

I could reduce the degrade of leather boots a bit but I don't think they should last even more than military viper boots. Leather clothing made by the player is of makeshift quality.

I can't do anything about the random quality of scrap metal. Sadly, that's hardcoded.

I totally forgot about the craftable rawhide longcoat. Imma add the recipe in the main page as soon as I get back home.

I agree about the Leather Utility Belt. I'll make it a more rare item to find.

The Rawhide Quiver is really easy to make, scpecially since Rawhide Patches are sold by the ATN. The Duffle Bag is not actually as common. I sometimes manage to make leather armor first before I find one.

About the crafting drawbacks:
1-Most crafting tools are supposed to be really heavy. Leather crafting, alcohol distilling or gun crafting are not supposed to be done on the fly.
2-Strong is not a requirement to craft or use anything. Trapping is only useful to craft a handful of unique things. For instance, leather crafting is not restricted to trapping since you can just buy hides and rawhide from the ATN market.
3-This depends a lot on luck, similar to what happens with the leather utility belt. I can make some of these items a bit more harder to find.
4-Crafting moonshine requires no skill. Crafting the Makeshift Still requires them instead. It requires those 2 skills because I don't want to create a new skill just for this. What I could do instead, is to make it so crafting the Still requires either of those 2 skills, crafting moonshine requires the botany skill and crafting pure alcohol requires the medic one.
5-They are better in some cases but as I mentioned before, the quality of player crafted items is of makeshift lvl. Besides, not all pre collapse items stopped being built. If medicine is being dispensed in the clinic, then clothes, guns, ammo, etc. are still being build in factories and the like since the DMC is so advanced.

About the new items:

I actually made a Tarp Back Sack, called Tarp Pack in those days. I removed it when the main game added Makeshift Sacks, which can also be crafted using Tarp. Tarp Packs became redundant so I remove them from the mod. You can still find pics of them in the old mod thread.

A rawhide/leather backpack has been suggested before and I do like the idea. I will implement it one of these days. :P

I had in mind something similar to leather pants. Something more like leather reinforced cargo pants. I also have in mind scrap metal reinforced pants too.

Not sure about a Kilt, though.

Knee and Elbow Pads is a good idea but this cannot be done right now. They can be implemented but it would be a bit weird, like belts since belts are not "officially" in the game.

About the pressure cooker. I will do some research see what I can do about it. Boiling water in the game makes drinking water safer but it doesn't deal with chemical contamination.

Pew pew pew!

I posted a suggestion for depth in all equipment slots, and Dan said he would look into it for future updates, even adding the ability to make extra equipment slots so modders could create non-human characters. So knee pads / leg armour can be a reality eventually :D

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