Vehicles with fuel and roads - is it possible?

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Vehicles with fuel and roads - is it possible?

I've been wondering something for a while based on my extremely limited knowledge of how the game systems work and how flexible modding is - is it possible to mod in things like cars that can be used in the vehicle slot, but can only be moved if they're somehow "fueled"? I feel like cars/motorcycles would be a natural extension of the vehicle system as well as the mechanic skill, and adding gasoline as a resource to the game would be simple enough, but I have no idea if it's possible to set it up so that vehicles have a special "gas" inventory slot that works kind of like batteries for electronic devices.

Additionally, it would make a lot of sense for cars to allow for VERY fast movement (maybe 0.1 moves per tile), but only along special road tiles. Now, I imagine that simply adding new tile types is simple enough, but it wouldn't make a lot of sense for roads to generate just kind of randomly around the map the way other stuff does. Can tiles be generated according to some kind of algorithm, so that roads are say, spawned across the map in big connected lines? The fact that rivers don't work like this gives me the feeling that it can't be done, but I don't really know. I suppose they could just be placed on the map manually in fixed locations like special encounter tiles, but that seems like kind of a stopgap measure and would also be less interesting than dynamically generated roads.

PS: I'm not really planning to develop this as a mod at the moment, I'm just curious if it's possible. If someone wants to give it a go feel free!

You can technically make a vehicle that only works when fueled - there was a mod once, now abandoned and not compatible, which had a go-cart what worked like that (it added +2 moves). Now, there are several problems with that idea: additional moves can be used to craft/scavenge, which doesn't make a lot of sense. Also, there can be only one movement modifier, so if your vehicle is faster, it would be everywhere - plain or forest, does not matter. Plus a story-related reason - since the game takes place around 40+ years after the collapse, there should be not a single drop of petrol left, anywhere.

Regarding roads, there is no algorithms to generate tiles, they are either pre-set or random. Also, how many new hex graphics one would have to make, in order to cover all possible configurations of connections between the hexes. And again, in-game reasons are here as well - so much time has passed that most roads should be good several cm deep under the dust, leaves and grass. On the other hand, each hex is about 1 km across, so there is like a bazillion different roads on each one, possibly (so assuming that roads are still "on top" almost every hex can be considered containing few of those).

So the whole topic of "real" vehicles and road transport is both nigh impossible technically and problematic lore-wise. That's why no-one went with it yet ;)


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
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Well not complete as there are vehicles in the DNC and its possible to die by being run over outside the Red Gnome

Cannibal Family Picnic

I'm pretty sure they are not powered by the same engines as the pre-collapse vehicles. Electric probably. Since they are living in a community that is completely cut off from the rest of the world and self-sufficient, they had to develop some alternative way to travel. But their vehicles don't really need to be super efficient, fast or long running, since they only use them inside a single city, even if it's a big one.

And even if they found a way to produce some sort of alternative liquid fuel (bio? methyl?), you can bet your yesterday undies they are not flying around the wastes, retro-fitting the wreckage with the new engines :D Nor they are exporting fuel and vehicles to the riders outside.


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
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Actually, they are in a sense "Flying Around", drones, biofuel is actually very easy to make if you have access to grain alcohol(I am actually making a car that runs on biofuel as a craft able item, though it is expensive, requires electronics, mechanical knowledge, etc). Petrol can still possibly exist, though it would be extremely rare outside of lab conditions, nuclear energy would likely play some part in power, coal/charcoal steam engines would also likely make an important source of energy, as said, electric power is an option. I have considered a lot of options including methane and hydrogen fuel sources.

Zom zoms is a prime example of what would likely be a bio fuel generator area, the area is to far for most energy based transport, so a fuel source would be needed, as well as the vehicles around it.

Source :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol

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Excluding steam and atomic power, which has nothing to do with player fixing cars, other options are also highly unlikely. Hard to imagine that someone would be able to fix a 40+ years old wreckage into a usable vehicle, capable of long range, off-road travel, using only duck tape, monkey wrench and good wishes :D Same with making a bio-fuel generator - maybe possible for an organized group with a set, fortified base, but hardly for a homeless hobo.

And as a side note about the grain - there is no grain in NEO world. Some small patches of the wild thing here and there, or maybe some stuff at the ATN, but the world is devoid of grain in large-scale sense. We know from the lore that, somewhere before or during the collapse, the Agrisanto corporation destroyed the last vault of "normal" grain is Norway, to make sure their modified ones stay "pure". What happened to their "better" version? Black Swamp happened.


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
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My idea was more for late game, with enough knowledge, you can make a welder, lathe, band saw, grinder, using parts, raw metal, rubber, and electronic components, one could not only make a generator, but cars and other equipment, while groups make it a lot easier, a distillery can be made of simple to find parts, grain isn't strictly just wheat, barley, corn, etc, grass can produce grain material, so unless there is nothing but stone and crag earth, we can still ferment alcohols, for drink of fuel.

Also note, it is nearly impossible to remove every grain from the planet, you can surely make it scarce, but after 40 years, a lot of things can be regrown, I can fill 10 acres of land with corn or wheat in less then 5 years with just a handful of grain, more then 1000 in about 10 years if all of it goes to regrowing(600 would be an easy guess to maintain with little effort over 40 years, this leaves about 540 tons of grain per year, only about 10-20% is needed to replant), as the old saying goes, "Life finds a way".

The steam and atomic power was referring to the city, their main source of transport fuel could indeed be electricity, but places like zom zoms would require something less connected, as they are not close to the city, leaving them few options on their main fuel source, stills can be set up to make alcohol, then distilled to make it more combustible, usable as fuel, not to mention a lot of fruits can be distilled as well and we have plenty of those, normal cars would be out of place in normal play, though I am adding them anyway, buggies and atv's would be more common for scavengers and drifters, tanks and APCs might be good for the military, but would rarely if every be worth using at this stage of rebuilding civilization. Hydrogen fuel cells would be possible, and might be an option, as it is already possible in real life now, though that would most likely be for military use only, like drones. Levels of tech can vary from faction to faction. So I will explore my options and mod what I can to make crafting more open.

Always remember, there are a lot of options that can be explored, so as modders, it is our job to explore, mess around, break reality and enjoy, it is a game after all.

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How about electric ATV?
When you simply walk you use one move (and push ATV without using any charges)
When you put ATV to your vehicle spot you gain "sprint" without any number attached to it
"Sprint" uses 0.1 move and 20 charges per even hex, 0.2 moves per uneven
ATV consumes electricity from special batteries in its inventory (has inventory- a bit smaller than shopping cart)

As for ATV that runs on liquid fuel, instead of batteries, fuel cans could be used (liquid container that can hold biofuel only)
Fuel can then is placed into ATV inventory and it uses fuel instead of charges (built-in fuel tank is sadly impossible)
I think 20km/L is good assumption, so if one droplet per hex, then one droplet could be 0.05L and stack up to 10 (since bottles are 0.5L)
So you can hold fuel either in bottles (for any liquid) or in fuel-only 5L/10L cans (with place for 10/20 droplet stacks)

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Children's backpack full of bullets? I see nothing wrong in that.

As I said, can be done. Using the running mechanic is how the Chiko's bicycle works, I think, and there should be no problem with making it work only if turned on. And ATV is the closest thing to being, in my opinion, actually useful in such a off-road scenario. Cars would be simply getting stuck on the undergrowth way too much to be really useful.

Also, wouldn't the crude bio-fuel be less volume-efficient than the petrol?


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
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Bio fuel in most cases is actually more efficient than normal petrol due to the amount of emissions from it. When run in an engine design specifically for biofuel it often runs longer than a gas generator, as well as quieter and needs less matinee depending on the materials used to make the biofuel.

Cannibal Family Picnic

This depends, the main difference is that the engines need to be stronger and more resistant to heat, as biofuels tend to burn at higher temps, they are more efficient and renewable, but the main issue is that they need more time to produce and process than oil, taking more space to produce, and rely on food resources.

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This was one thing on my list almost from the beginning, but Kaaven does a pretty good job of explaining all the obstacles that stopped me from pursuing it. (Terrain vs. vehicle type, moves vs. crafting turns, roads vs. hexes, etc.)

The lore reasons can be compensated for, I think. It's true that most old petrol would have been rendered useless by time, but there's nothing stopping anyone from creating new fuel from biomass or oil. And electricity is certainly easy to create in high-tech areas. The Skunkworks Fusion in a Truck may have even been refined for more common usage in the timeline of the game's future history.

However, the infrastructure outside of local enclaves and the DMC is spotty, at best. Better have a long-range vehicle or the means of generating fuel on the go if one is leaving town :)

That said, one idea I'm toying with is trading routes between cities in future games. E.g. hover convoys leaving the DMC to trade with certain other areas, or Mad Max style ground convoys braving the wastes to transport goods. It's likely too complex to shoehorn into NEO Scavenger 1, but I'd like to explore this more as the world expands through new games.

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

I'm gonna take this and run with it: Did Dan just *confirm* NEO 2, by mentioning NEO 1? Yes, yes he did. XD You can't take it back now, we all heard you. ;D


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Well the way I was imagining "Roads" would work was really more like "highways", where they would be a few big major routes along the map in a more or less straight line. Mad Max style road use was sort of the idea I had in mind with the initial thought - I figured gas would be scarce but not totally impossible to come by; either the rare jerry can that was stashed away in someone's basement somewhere (I'm not sure how long gasoline actually lasts if it's just sitting around so that's probably not 100% realistic but I figure if there are plastic bags still blowing around a few cans of gas aren't unreasonable), or a faction that manufactures it, like in Escape From New York. Electric vehicles make sense too, but the idea I had in mind was that most of the abandoned vehicles you'd find in the wasteland would be lower tech, and you'd be able to fix them up by salvaging/trading for spare parts and using the mechanic skill. Electric vehicles strike me as something that would be used only by the DMC authority either within the city or along convoy routes like you mention.

The main reason I thought of it in the first place was mostly just because "vehicles" in the game aren't really vehicles so much as just additional storage - which is obviously super useful (especially since they can increase your effective carrying capacity along with just giving you more physical space), but it just seemed like it would be neat to be able to drive around the wasteland given the proper supplies. It would require the ability to differentiate the movement bonus by terrain type though, since a car would probably have MORE difficulty traversing hills than a person just travelling on foot. Is it possible to have certain terrain become impassable based on conditions like current vehicle? That might work as an alternative to scaling speed bonuses - you'd move fast along flat terrain like grassland or intact urban areas, but urban ruins/hill/forests would be impassable by car. Roads would have just been a way to at least guarantee a few driving routes across the map, since it would suck to get a random map that completely boxes your car into a small area.

In any case, it would most likely be a kind of "end-game" thing, but maybe some ultra-rare event could have you stumble across a car that's miraculously in pristine condition. Maybe it's got the name "Christine" engraved on the steering wheel, to keep things interesting...

From my knowledge, gas breaks down and solidifies(into a gel like material) over 1-5 years without additives, depending on conditions, a large "Super Way" would actually be reasonable and allow patrols to be more focused on that with rangers out in the wastes.
What could happen is that all terrain becomes an "Item" depicting certain things and conditions that can make you "Immune" to a car's benefit, cars could actually maintain a few conditions, driving through a forest isn't as fast, but headlights would still help, driving over hills could reduce max speed of the car, 2 conditions like "Top Speed" and "Minimal speed" would be implemented and the only issue is crafting, is there a way to affect run recharge rate? I already heard run moves can be changed.

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In terms of game functions, maybe a "driving vehicle" condition can be modded that enables less move costs on terrain? I think I can try my hand at it.

Dualists: one soul, two bodies. dualists.wordpress.com

Regarding about the multiple roads: if I´m not mistaken, there are some notes in-game (by newspapers clips) that roads no more exist due to some Detroit measure (don´t remember what exactly)

Bycicle would be an interesting idea (well, if that satisfies your idea of transport mean)

It said that roads crumbled not disappeared.
Due to decreased maintenance they became uneven.
There would definitively be some remains of roads/bridges.
40-ish years are not enough to remove concrete based roads.

And even uneven road is better than off-road (so 0.5-0.75 moves per move)

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Children's backpack full of bullets? I see nothing wrong in that.

The article in-game actually mentions that they were grinding some secondary roads to gravel, to save the costs of maintenance. But I doubt they did it to all the roads.

The problem with roads that are not used at all, I feel, would be a deep layer of... well, basically of everything, lying on top of them. Trash, sand, leaves (especially leaves, in the northern parts of the northern hemisphere) would quickly (as in 2-3 seasons) cover most of them, with low-needs vegetation (like moss and grass) over-growing that pretty well, causing even more severe secondary erosion (moss is particularly bad for concrete, as it goes into every crack gathers lots of water which can deepen the cracks when it freezes at Fall/Winter). So not only would the erosion of the roads be way more rapid than on mostly unused, but still somewhat maintained roads, but to be frank - one would have problems even locating some of the roads, due to them being covered by several cm of compost, trash and plant-life.

But, again, not all of the roads would become like this.


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
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Maybe Jeeps are not out of question. Some perform really well off-road and are very sturdy. Maybe finding one that needs motor and/or wheels replacement before funcioning (mechanic skill), with a lower chance to find a fully(ish) funcional.

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Gariba's Extras and Miscellaneous:
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Hmm...Deluxe Skybike Rental Service..

Substitute durability for fuel..
Dura=0 ==> It flies off leaving ur stuff behind..(.P.A.Y. .U.R. .B.I.L.L.S. .I.N. .T.I.M.E. .!.)

The single modifier would make it x4 travel speed..simple no ?

I think the code can allow for another modifier though..I'm looking into code right now..so maybe it'll be simple..

Anyways..the rental would deduct from dura each time the bike is used..
(Similar to shoes..fully terrain dependant..)
if you get back to the rental you can take the dura of the bike and replenish it dependant on payment..
(no user servicable parts inside..)

The only problem would be creation of the rental thing..
(it'll involve adding new options...but if you can pull that off..well..skybikes it is then..)

I'd price the Skybikes severely though..(it's SOO deluxe..with big fat cargo train...)

Only for end game users..(the ones that just won't quit hunting for dogmenz and loot..like me..)
The only problem would be that someone else might run off with it..
(and ur loot would be dropped somewhere you just won't find anymore..)
I dunno..now it seems like I just opened up a whole new can of worms..

(sowwies..)

Anyways...seeing most stuff that has 'uses' like flashlights it' very viable to make a car run on electricity..
- hears "butt butt" noises... Yeah yeah..Electrics..and where would get that many electric charges ?..
Solar power...
Plain and simple..
Pick up the charges from the solar power generator put them into the ATV..or jeep..or whatever you wanna use..(Truck ?!? lol..)
You can use items to create the solar generator..
Find panels from some roof, and scavenge usable parts..

maybe like so..

x4 Solar cells + x1 small parts ===> small solar panel..
x8 small solar panel ==> solar array...

small solar panel + large battery + small parts ==> solar charger..(same capacity as battery..)
x2 solar array + 16 large battery + x32 small parts ==> solar charge array..

or something like that..

I don't know how to make a script or a timer that raises the content charges though..
maybe make it invisible worn ? and reverse dura ? with dura being set to 0.1 on emptying it ?
(that's a trick btw..using the value+0.1...that way when it empties it's not actually kaputt..)

I dunno..I'm still lookin into that thing..
Just started with XML etc...
Looks quite similar to old style basic though..so It won't take long for me to figure it out..
..never knew it was that simple..

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O.o ..cool game..

please look at my overhaul mod and inspect what i did to the Tracking skill, this might give you some ideas with the movement

OverHaul Mod
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