0.9951b - Shotgun names/ammo - bug or intentional?

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0.9951b - Shotgun names/ammo - bug or intentional?

Not sure whether to post this in bugs or suggestions, since I'm not actually sure either/both of these things aren't bugs... but figured it was more likely to be seen by Dan here in case they were.

Currently, shotgun ammo is red = solid slug, grey = buckshot. I'm sure some real-life gun expert will jump in and give a reason for this, but I'd be *very* surprised to find that if you asked them, 95% of gamers aren't mentally conditioned to think "red shells = buckshot" from literally decades of in-game shotgun ammo being depicted that way (right or wrong)... to the point that I started wondering if the ammo colours weren't actually mixed up by mistake?

Secondly, something I more strongly suspect IS a "bug" (or rather, typo) is that the Perforator and SBS4 shotguns in the game are named "hunting rifle" and "military rifle" respectively when unidentified. I'm no gun expert, but (sadly?) even a ten-year-old boy these days can tell you that a pump-action shotgun is a "shotgun" from it's basic look. Shouldn't the unidentified names be "shotgun" and "military shotgun" respectively (with the proper brand/name/calibre reserved for Ranged skill characters, of course)?

My Mods:SaveMan|Fishing|Shouldered|Bottles

I honestly think that the color of the shells is insignificant. It is actually good idea to try and break as many of those moronic "player conditioned myths" as possible - that is why I really like the fact that one cannot smear the poison berries to make a "poisoned cleaver +3 to the lack of realism" :D

And I wouldn't be so sure about those rifles, seeing how the .308 one is pump-action as well - if you would want to be very precise with people's lack of hardware knowledge, than both should be called "shotgun" by those without the Ranged skill.


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That's a good question, Banjo. I'm certainly one of those people conditioned to thinking red shells are buckshot, and pump-action rifles are shotguns. And in reality, there are several brands of buck shot shells in red, and pump-action shotguns.

The shell colors are actually deliberate, though not with the intention of confusing players. The particular samples I was using as references had those colors. And as Kaaven says, I'm happy to defy video game tropes when reality can back me up :)

As for the rifles, I think you could make an argument for calling them shotguns as much as not. The .308 pictured in the game is technically a pump-action, as well, so basing the names off of the action isn't always reliable.

I think that in this case, I like the idea of the names being obviously uninformed. An educated player can still tell by the artwork what they're dealing with, but unless they've sacrificed the points in-game, they don't get the in-game benefits.

That, and our idea of common gun knowledge may still be more than an average person's. Hell, even I still sometimes think of "rifle" and "long gun" as interchangeable words :)

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

While I don't fully agree with the idea of shotguns being named "rifles" even generically, it's certainly not a major issue for me and more something I was just confused as the the reasoning behind... as I said, I was initially wondering if it was actually a typo.

On the other hand, I am very much willing to go in to "bat" for shotgun ammo colours being officially swapped (i.e. red = buckshot, grey = solid slug). IMO, it really does seem unusual and needlessly confusing as it stands. I honestly can't think of a single video game I've ever played that had buckshot shells show them to be *any* other colour besides red, whether there were other shotgun ammo types or not. Unless deliberately trying to trick the player (and you said you weren't), I can't see any reason why this shouldn't be so in NeoScavenger, too.

Mind you, I will admit to probably being more focused on this than some players, given the fact that I'm a "shotgun guy" in most games that offer them! :)

My Mods:SaveMan|Fishing|Shouldered|Bottles

An uninformed person (remember that in this case it's a "person" not a "gamer") would be likely to classify any long gun as a "rifle" without regard to the accuracy of it. And the Perforator looks like it's a hunting gun, so that part of the name is accurate.

Although now I'm thinking about an "esotericist" skill that's relatively cheap (1-2 points) where the PC has a bunch of random knowledge that gives the identification bonii of several skills but none of their other benefits. So you'd be able to ID pills, guns/ammo, and berries, and whatever else needs special skills to ID. Maybe also give it some unique uses in encounters, like getting extra info at the ATN enclave from your knowledge of tribal customs. But nothing actually useful to SURVIVE -- no combat bonuses, no use while scavenging, etc etc.

I kinda like that as a funny little side thing.

Just get a bunch of Random knowledge but nothing really useful.

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