Could we discuss loot frequency some more?

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Could we discuss loot frequency some more?

So many newcomers find the game too hard already, and then there's a bunch of us finding it too easy. Balancing will always be a matter of taste, but I think at this point in development and with the new build in mind maybe we could hear some opinions on loot and rarity.

The post came about because when I started playing the new build I was looking forward to the dog moon T-shirt, while expecting it'd be really hard to find (rare and special, right?). I got 2 in a matter of 2 days, all within 2 hexes of Cryo, and despite the fact that I wasn't actively killing everyone around. In the same two days, and in a single scavengable location I landed pretty much everything, including 4 sleds and 1 shopping cart (but only 5 stones). Amongst other things I had 3 backpacks, 2 duffel bags (neat btw), a gun, enough paper for arrows, a small but all encompassing collection of pills, a water purifier and a pot, and I never bothered to count all the clothes and shoes. I did wonder to which extent the first dog moon t-shirt played a role in this (I assume luck influences loot rarity?). But even if that were so: in all the (many) games that I started with the previous build, I had enough loot for an easy run in 3-5 days the latest (all before leaving ZomZom's and usually only missing a pot - and always leaving behind a couple of campsites full of stuff I couldn't carry).

Philip sounds like a random normal fella thrown in the apocalypse, it feels wrong for him to be completely decked out in a matter of a few days. I never considered myself one of those "hardcore gamerz" types, too old for that, but I simply can't wait for the inevitable "hardcore" mod that is going to drop valuable loot rates so low I'm going to be scrambling to make it through the first few weeks. And I'm perfectly willing to take the game as is and wait for said mod. But I still think this is a balancing issue that deserves to be discussed more.

So for my (personal) taste, examples of too common loot:
4 t-shirts, a hide tunic and 3 shoes from one single scavenge are too many. One pair of jeans would be a great find on day one, finding 3 at once makes them irrelevant. The dog moon t-shirt will only be special if it's much harder to find (or did I just get first time lucky?). Sleds just shouldn't still be close to rarity with stones. Containers generally I find myself being complacently counting upon, and I secretly wish I'd be forced to run around with a shopping bag for a tiny bit - or be forced to take the mechanic skill and make myself a travois. Pills are way WAY too easy to find as far as I'm concerned (does being a medic even affect their loot chance?). I also wish more items would stand out in rarity, like the composite bow does (I still almost always end up finding a couple of those in every game but by then I've spent enough of the game wishing for one). Lastly, I feel it would make more sense to have a higher percentage of scavenge situations landing you with just some glass and threads or something equally inconsequential. Finding crap more often would mean finding good loot actually makes an impact.

On the other hand, good (imo) examples of balanced rarity:
Guns and ammo I feel are right on the mark between being rare but not so rare that you can't count on having a gun shooting build with enough of the correct ammo by say week 2 or 3. Composite bows, nano kits and some battery types are the only things these days that I am actually excited to find, because you just can't count on them. (Okay you can count on nano kits if you hang around the junk market long enough, but that's something you have to actually know and work towards, which is good in my book). I do also like the infrequency of pots. They aren't exactly rare, but you do have to go looking for them, and since they are so very useful I feel their relative rarity is just perfect for my taste (I'll actually hunt down a pot-yielding looter when I spot one in early game, makes for a great little ingame story). As for DMC guard loot being near impossible to find, that's just fantastic as far as I'm concerned. Having missed the build with the spawning bug, I wanted to get at them so bad that I decided to play some runs just attacking the guards to see what they drop. And seeing how I can survive the game just fine without their specific loot, it's nice to know there's stuff there that I need to take real risk and repercussions if I want to get my hands on them.

And some ideas:
I keep secretly wishing that a run would be somehow influenced by the sort of loot you find. If you end up finding almost everything you wish for and in just a matter of days, then all the runs end up feeling a tad too similar to one another, even with different skills. In that sense, I think tweaking loot rarity, and/or rarity zones, and/or skill based rarity, at least for a few specific, desirable items may actually make a huge difference in replayability, without impacting new players too much. Creating some zones with less scavengable locations (say around ATN, which is a cash farming machine atm), and tying more items to specific areas may also be ideas to consider. They have the added benefit of potentially making emptier areas of the map more interesting while by-passing the "luck based game" complaints (assuming those complaints should even be a concern - I find them weird in a roguelike that is built around replayability).

So that's my rant, thanks for bothering to read what inadvertently turned into an essay. Let me reiterate for the umpteenth time: at the end of the day all this is just a matter of personal taste, possibly colored by the fact that the game wasn't designed to be played for upwards of 200 hours. ;) Other opinions?

NEO Scavenger: FAQ
10 Ways (not) to Die - A beginner's guide

I, too, secretly wish to be forced to use a shopping bag for at least a few days, lol. But yeah, this entirely. You've hit the nail on the head in regards to my opinion as well.

The "bonus loot" mechanic is good in theory but, when a game's main progression system is based on the gear you can find and use, the challenge becomes non-trivial. Especially when, like you said, you can pretty much get everything you need in one search if you're "lucky" enough. Generally, I think I would feel more satisfied picking things up here and there rather than just gunning for the big score. A t-shirt and shopping bag from one hex, pants over there, soup can and pocket tool here, etc.

However, part of the whole being "decked" out thing is that there isn't a large variety of things to find and choose from. In Kaaven's mod, there are a few different clothing options and some new containers(school bag and briefcase) which I find more than the Yukon bag. Here he kinda explains how it works, a "hard by variety" kind of system. I'm sure Dan has explained how the looting mechanics work too, but I don't have that on demand as a citation.

Making game looting chance on what you already have or had would be somewhat improvement. Because right now ZomZom territory give you practically everything you need to wear and use. In that way you would be somehow make to wear those "worse" iteams like plastic bag etc

Nerfing ZomZom would be good start.

The game is at it's best in the first few days coming out of cryo, when you need something but have to make do with what you have. I like that creative element and it'd be good to recreate it in the later game but I don't think item-drought is the way to go.

I'd rather see it happen by events, for example while fighting you could make certain items damageable or just straight up losable. A dogman might shred your backpack or coat while you're running away, or you might lose a shoe falling down a ravine. Bullets could cut a swathe through your equipment, one unlucky shot and your nano-medkit or laptop now has a hole in it; just be grateful it wasn't your head :)


@McLumberjack: I didn't think of that. Interesting idea.

@Perteks: I'd expect all experienced players would want ZomZom's nerfed. What worries me is how much that would affect new players. Probably too much.

@JustcallmeX: See, Kaaven's mod's solution is great for a mod (fantastic mod btw), but I doubt Dan has the time atm to add enough new items to really affect balance. Which is why I was hoping simpler solutions might alleviate the balancing issues a bit.

Random new idea: Maybe changing the frequency with which scavengable locations restock would also help. If nothing else, that would force you to move on. It feels like they restock every 24-48 hours atm (could be wrong, just citing memory), and that's a bit unrealistic. Plus, that majorly contributes to ZomZom's being such a goldmine. Oh, and of course, it'd be another incentive to explore more of the map. That's always good.

NEO Scavenger: FAQ
10 Ways (not) to Die - A beginner's guide

Thanks for the detailed feedback! I don't often have time to peruse the non-tech-support forums, but I happened to see a Google alert in my inbox for this post, and decided to take a look.

I'm glad you were able to cite examples of both loot that seems to common and loot that seems adequately rare. Once you started listing things like guns and ammo, batteries, and pots, I was like "yeah, I remember those feeling rare and exciting, too." It helps to give me a picture for the target we're aiming for.

You have some specific points, so I'll list them here:

  • 3 Dog Moon shirt - This is sort of a special case. Since it was the contest winner, I didn't want to make it [i]too[/] rare. It felt weird to have a winner's item buried in high rarity loot tables. However, after this build, I think you're right that it appears too often. What's more, I think it makes it less special when it's everywhere. More rarity might be better, because that way, people talk about it more and get more excited.
  • Sleds and Carts - I thought I had made sleds less common in 0.988b, but maybe I made a mistake. Or maybe need to dial it down more. They should be something one finds infrequently. (Excepting something like a shopping center, if I ever get around to adding one.)
  • Pills - I definitely agree that pills come up too frequently, so I've made note of that.
  • Clothes - I'm on the fence about this one. On one hand, it's true that we don't want players to find everything they need too soon. On the other hand, though, I think it makes sense that if you find any clothes at all while scavenging, it's in someone's dresser/closet/laundry or an old store. I.e. a big pile all at once.
  • Hide Tunics - These should be more rare, though. As found clothes go, anyway.
  • Containers - If backpacks and duffles are common, I may need to adjust the container random loot to favor plastic bags and cardboard boxes more than the better types.
  • Hard by Variety - JustcallmeX makes a good point about the item variety. Some classes of items have little variety, and the only option is a good one. I always wanted to add things like kiddie backpacks and sandals, but never got around to it.
  • Item Damage - McLumberjack mentions damaging items. There is a system that deals damage to items in combat, but maybe this isn't severe enough. I think it just wears items out per their normal rates. But maybe this should really wreak havoc on items. I'll make note of that.
  • ATN and Zom Zom's - You mention these areas are "cash farms" or need nerfing. I'm willing to look into that, but want to understand it better. Is ZZ's a cash farm because it has so many urban locations around it? And is the ATN too generous with food/care? Or just that they buy items with abundant scavenging nearby?

Thanks again for the feedback!

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

Hey Dan, thanks for taking the time.

ZOMZOM's: Again, I'm very unsure about nerfing that in any way, seeing how much it'd affect new players. However, with so many locations around it, and with the frequency with which they refresh/restock, it's overpowered even for new players. Maybe that last idea with lowering the restock/refresh frequency of scavengable locations would help balance things out a bit?

ATN: Like Kaaven says. Free food and drink refills, repeatable ad nauseum, free healing, and all the loot you can sell. You park right at their entrance, never bother with food and water, and you scavenge and kill everything around until you got the 7-8000 or get bored. Something needs to give there.

Kaaven's idea with limiting the food and healing supplies is good. I don't know if a second dead zone appeals to me even if it makes sense - it'd be a bit annoying to have that twice. Cash farms of some form can be game-y but they appeal to certain types of players and allow for some strategizing. I'd just rather it wasn't *this* extravagantly overpowered.

Other ideas for ATN apart from limiting food and healing: Lower the amount of urban areas around (it would make sense) but say increase the deer (=player can make money slower by hunting and scavenging forests, or by traveling further and thus being forced to still worry about his own food). Make certain items not acceptable in their market. Limit the amount of money they have available per day. Anything really. My personal preference would be on limiting the food they offer and limiting the urban areas around them.

ITEM DAMAGE: I'm not sure how I feel about that one, if it were as powerful as it is being described, we'd have to see it in action. However, the system in place atm is hardly noticeable at all, so cranking it up at least a notch can't hurt, can it?

Also, yes please, let's only get hide tunics very very very rarely as found items, we can make them or take them off looters. I do however get your point about the rest of the clothes and the closets.

And duffle bags I feel should be really rare too. Perteks is right, they make birch bags that degrade really fast completely useless, especially since you almost never find birch bags earlier than ATN (and even then you usually have to buy them) but you seem to now find duffle bags everywhere around Cryo and ZomZom's. We can do fine without the extra space for a while, those should be a special treat.

Lastly, I was thinking about Kaaven and the whole making scavenging more tiresome approach. I was wondering how easy it'd be to make such an effect heavily interplay with the weight you carry. That way it would not affect early game (and new players) much, but it would force you to alter your gameplay and think twice about scavenging later on, when you already have enhancements and crowbars and lighters and it's just way way too easy to find a ton of stuff with every scavenging action.

NEO Scavenger: FAQ
10 Ways (not) to Die - A beginner's guide

Hey all! Let me add my three cents here :D

I gave the whole problem a thought or two, as I was gathering the ideas for the mod. My conclusion is that adding the variety is the only "fair" way of dealing with it.

For example, McLumberjack's idea is a quite realistic one, since I believe that things in real life do get broken by accidents more often than by actual wear-and-tear (and, btw, receiving wounds in the game right now actually damages the clothes in that location). But unless Dan would be able to create a VERY complex model for "what was hit and why" simulation, implementing something like that would take the player's control from his hands and leave him at the mercy of the evil Random Number Generator (of Doom) - especially if not only combat but random encounters could do that too: loosing an important piece of clothing and freezing to death because RNG chose a coat over a shirt or a shoe. Getting your laptop broken seems not that bad, unless you just spent 2 days returning to the market to sell the $2500 worth of files inside. Realistic? Probably yes. Fun? Not so much.

The nerfing of scavenge chances was rightfully mentioned to mostly hit on the new/starting players, making their game's less fun, more frustrating while not really fixing the issue itself. Same deal with lowering the chances at ZomZom's only.

One thing that I tried in Mod of Doom, and think that could work is, I've made each scavenging attempt deplete player's energy a bit (also using "forceful" options - Strength and Crowbar - use a lot more). This way it is not the loot that gets nerfed, but the character's ability to obtain it - one cannot just spend the whole day "crowbaring" his way through one ruin after another to quickly obtain the best items in the game - he will fall face-frist from exhaustion after several hours/turns.

That should, in theory, affect mid-game players more than the starting ones, as a new character starts with full Energy bar, and fewer problems to spend that energy on (mobs not spawned in full numbers, no real quests or "scavenging routes" established, etc.). Later on, character has to constantly conserve the energy.

If that works out as planned (new version and mod porting did not leave much time for testing), I would suggest Dan to add something similar to the vanilla game. But that's player, and not loot, nerfing ;)

EDIT: Since Dan pulled Ninja on me right now, some feedback:
- ZomZom's nerfing - there is enough scavenging locations there, between starting and new ones showing up, that player can easily gather full set of clothes/equipment within first day (unless he is really unlucky). Not that big of a problem, more like dominant strategy - "always go loot the ZomZom's area first, to get your gear" - said the old master to his newb apprentice ;)

- ATN - those guys offer food and healing you for free and in endless supply, buy all the junk and patrol the area, making this a best scavenging area in the game. Two things I would propose to change - add "looted zone" around it, just like with DMC and make them give player food only once a day and healing once a week, or something like that. And/or maybe they could not buy everything?

<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
DeviantArt Gallery of MoD Sprites

Hah! THREE cents? I didn't know opinions were subject to inflation, or perhaps yours is just especially valuable? :p

I think the damaging items thing could have more depth than that, there's lots that you could do to mitigate it. For one: if you freeze to death from losing a coat you're a pretty terrible survivor. Such a thing would be a setback, you'd be back to using a sleeping bag or lighting fires to stay warm like at the beginning.

As far as keeping valuable items, things like tin cans and medkits now have more value. By putting valuable items inside a metal-object you could keep it safe(er), and of course size could matter. I imagine a bullet zipping through a backpack to be something like playing battleship with your inventory grid. B9! Hit! A hole in your water bottle. C3! Bounced off a cleaver. To keep valuable data safe the best thing to do would be to put it on a memory stick or phone, then put that in a tin-can. To lose it then would be the worst of all possible luck, a one-in-a-million shot and would make for a great story round the campfire.

There could also be some sort of data-recovery software for damaged tech items. Something else for hackers to do (still a seriously under-utilised skill, just to give my t-no, FOUR cents), and damaged items could be a more common thing to scavenge.


I like idea of damage items by damage in fight.

Its not need to be so complicated for example it can be aplied like:
If hits [b]torso[b] then roll for damage to items on torse ->
roll for damage to clothes + backpack
roll for amount of items damaged in backpack ( 2 times if hitted another cointaner)
Damage could be summary of cuts and blunt damage done x roll 5-10.
Additional roll for vehicle damage with smaller chance.

Only thing what would be hard to what to do to indestructible items like laptop, can etc

Same to hand legs etc.

I need to say Kaaven have very good idea to make scavenging more taxing its one way to make it less, instant gear thing.

But about rarity of loot in 0.988b,
In first few rounds i found 2 times box cart (70 and 90%) a lot of duffle bags (like 7-8,way more than Yukons) and of course all set of stuff what I need to survive. I think it should be very hard to find any working vehicle, in that way people will look more realistic on 2 other way to obtain your vehicle (ATN and mechanic).

Duffle bag now practically discriminate soft birch bag.
And duffles shouldn't go into backpack slot too ?

Hide tunics are way to often, I never had chance to get full animal hides by myself faster than I find it in random scavenging or on some poor npc who went into my way. And that dogman coat on start practically don't deteriorate, even after few weeks of scavenging, fighting random npc's etc its over 95%.

ZomZom's: I'm on the fence about ZomZom's. On one hand, I feel like because they're such a resource heavy(and violent) kind of operation that the areas around it would have been picked pretty good. Either for the Bad Mutha's arsenal, or to tack onto their machines of death. On the other it's an acceptable risk to go there for loot because there are baddies patrolling there ready to eat you alive. If it was possible, making weapons a little rarer around ZomZom's would be a good trade off. You'll find the clothes to keep you warm if you're able to dodge out of the way of some cannibals.

ATN: Pretty much what everyone else said. Unlimited meals and healing, why even bother going back out into the wastes? They love you there and it's safe. Perhaps increasing the range of the forest out another hex to "chew up" turns, but that feels kinda... meh.

It's probably too late, or not even possible, but I've always thought a "Barter" system could work. Basically it'd be another money counter right under cash, and represent trading items between the player and the market. It's not actual money being traded, but the perceived value of the items. Only places like the ATN and ZomZom's would use this "barter cash," while you'd still use regular cash at the DMC. The catch being that come the stroke of midnight, like the trader stocks, your barter cash would be reset to zero. The only gripe i see is that this "barter cash" would be interchangeable with other barter type traders.

"Hey guys, I gave the ATN this hunting rifle, can I take those boots, theses five cans of soup and some bullets?" "Oh yeah! Sure! Go right ahead! Man, that Philip guy sure is a swell fella."

Item Damage: I'm probably among the masochistic minority that would be in favor of this. Hurt me more. How to handle it appropriately, I have no idea. It seems like a pretty straight forward idea. I like McLumberjack's Battleship analogy xD

Scavenging/hexes: I find that even within a day that a lot of lootable locations popup even after I've cleared them all out the day prior. Maybe a cap on how many lootable locations a hex can respawn in a single day. So that say, a rubble hex would only have the chance to respawn 1 regular building, and any more would be crumbling or destroyed searchable areas. The suburban hexes(the ones with houses and trailers) are pretty balanced, I usually only ever get two houses to 7 trailers.

@Kaaven: Exhausting your energy while scavenging is one of the things I really like about your mod, as it makes a lot of sense too.

@linibot: Weight affecting the energy you use while scavenging is also a good idea but, just like with temperature, you can always drop your bag before scavenging to minimize the weight impact and then pick it back up again after your done. But still it makes sense, as there is always the chance that some lugnut could happen by and make off your pack before you can do anything.

Long post, so I'm gonna fragment these into Spoiler blocks to help make it a little easier to digest.

Regarding item damage:

Spoiler: Highlight to view
Would it be possible to have additional wound slots and/or checks on what is getting struck? For example, adding left shoulder, right shoulder, and back wound slots to apply checks for those three locations (shoulders for gun/strapped crowbar and birch bag, back for backpack contents); if you're holding a pack in one of your hands (which I am prone to do), you may instinctively use it as a shield, making its contents subject to becoming damaged. This may mitigate damage to your body (that incoming crowbar swing may have busted your laptop, but at least it didn't bust your arm!).

If you're running away on your last move, your back and shoulder slots (and their containing items) would be at greater risk of taking damage.

Combat options for "fight defensively" might increase the chance of using items on one's hands to parry, which could also mitigate damage, but will definitely diminish the item's condition. Certain attack types (i.e. bullets) shouldn't be able to be mitigated by handheld items. (Though if you can parry bullets with a crowbar, holy crap would that be nuts.)

Certain defensive moves could also possibly damage items. Want to roll on the ground like Link does? Hope you didn't have an iSlab in your backpack...

I'm also in agreement with McLumberjack's idea to use metal items to protect fragile items. Right now, I have no use at all for the First Aid Kit or Soup Can items, as neither grants bonus volume to inventory. Keeping precious bottles of whiskey protected in the first aid kit would make sense.

Trying to think of a check list when an attack hits...
1.) Check for successful body part struck. Does it hold an item or container?
1.a.) Single item (hands, R-shoulder): chance that it is struck (player parried with it, attacker purposely targeted it, accident or bad luck); otherwise, strike body part.
1.b.) Container (back, L-shoulder, hands if applicable): chance to strike container instead of body part; if so, pull protective value of material (metal, leather, canvas, plastic) and compare to attack to determine penetration. Did the hit penetrate?
1.b.1.) Piercing penetration: attack overpowered material. high chance to damage contents; majority of force penetrates to wound slot. Example: bullet pierces birch bag on shoulder
1.b.2.) Crushing penetration: attack absorbed by material. moderate chance to damage contents; little force penetrates to wound slot. Example: crowbar strikes backpack on arm/hand
1.b.3.) Deflected attack: attack failed to penetrate. low chance to damage contents; no force penetrates to wound slot. Example: punch strikes backpack on back
1.c.) In any of the above checks: if an item or container isn't struck, strike body part directly.
1.d.) No objects: strike body part directly.

How much an item is damaged would be determined by the force of the attack. Fragile items like electronics and glass would have a low durability and break easily.

Maybe also have some code where if a liquid container is destroyed, so are any containing liquids. This should probably also apply to boiling water in whiskey bottles; if it breaks while you're boiling it, then the water is going to spill out and be lost.

Regarding ATN:

Spoiler: Highlight to view
I haven't abused the ATN as others have (I gained my riches in older versions by looting DMC guards littering the countryside), but I can see how this is an issue.

I propose this instead: ATN should use barter, not currency. You may need to create something new for this, but having a "trade window" where you can fill the bottom with items to create a value, then exchange it for items available for sale instead of directly receiving cash would help mitigate the lining of one's pockets. Any excess value gets tossed once you finish trading.

I see something like this: Top half is the stuff for sale. On the bottom, it is split into left/right. On the left, you place what you want to get from the merchant. On the right, you place what you are offering. The left-hand and upper inventory blocks will appear a faint hue of some color to indicate a link as to what the ATN owns. The bottom-right block would be the normal grey, indicating you can freely manipulate items. Once you hit the "Trade" button (and providing the trade checks out), the bottom-right inventory block becomes dimmed (it's now locked, you no longer own those items) and the bottom left becomes the regular grey (you now own them and can manipulate them freely).

Two possible hiccups, though. One, once the merchant pulls what you traded into its inventory, any items that don't fit will be lost. This can be handwaved as "someone found a use for it and now it's gone." Two, if you fail to think ahead and don't have enough room for the items you're trading for, you could end up losing them.

Alternative barter method: Selling items at the ATN gets you "goodwill" with the ATN and them alone. You can spend this credit with them, but there's no cash involved. You give them stuff, they remember the deed and will give you stuff in return when you want or need it, up until the scales are balanced. You cannot "borrow" from them with the intent on paying it back in trade later (or hell, maybe you can up to a point, depending on if you are held in positive esteem or not amongst the tribe).

Regarding Event-based Item Loss:

Spoiler: Highlight to view
This wouldn't be bad either provided it makes sense, or is at least explained in a way that makes sense. I'd be a little perplexed if I lost a boot falling down a ravine considering they've got laces (I'd be more likely to lose whatever was in my hands or shoulder slots), but I could see the laces coming undone and losing one or both in a knee-high swamp or something if I chose options that were careless.

I wouldn't mind seeing some events creating combat scenarios, as well as some post-combat description. This may not be possible in the scope of the game, but I want to cite Darklands as an example here and tell a story:

In Darklands, death is permanent, but your party can fall unconscious and not have it be game over. Your party has valuables looted, they are captured and locked in a dungeon and have to escape, or sometimes members are separated and left to unknown fates. One time I was sneaking into a raubritter's tower and we got our asses handed to us. We were stripped of all combat items (but kept potions and other items) and thrown down in a cell. We had the opportunity to try and climb out and find rope for those who couldn't climb, look for secret exits, pick the lock, etc. If all our attempts failed, that was it. It was a soft game over, load from an earlier save. Even after that, we still had to fight our way out of the dungeon with no equipment, unless we got lucky and found it somewhere.

For Neo Scavenger, I envision an event in an urban hex where you find yourself surrounded by a gang of desperate looters. They may not be interested in killing you, they just want you knocked out or overpowered so they can take whatever you have on you of value. You enter combat, and maybe you win; maybe you don't. If you lose, you'd come out of it beaten, bruised, maybe a little humiliated, but it wouldn't be a game over, and it would add some color to the adventure if the struggle itself were written out. Five or six looters holding you down while one guy pulls off your backpack and another steals your boots off your feet, hell maybe they are cold-blooded enough to strip you completely naked. Could leave it partly to chance, partly to how well you defend yourself. It's dog-eat-dog out there, right?

The problem here is that I don't believe there are events that trigger as a result of losing a combat scenario. I've fallen unconscious, been silently looted, then wake up later (rarely--most times I just die). But nothing more colorfully described to help immerse me. In most cases, the only time I lose any items is when I'm hit with the Game Over screen.