Creating a body size based on selected traits

11 posts / 0 new
Last post
#1
Creating a body size based on selected traits

Heya. I've been toying with the idea of learning this modding thing, specifically trying to create clothing that is no longer "one size fits all." The XML file is a lot of confusing numbery stuff, but reading other posts gives me a little glimpse as to how to guess-and-proceed.

The goal of this would be twofold:
- Add a bit more realism by discarding the "one size fits all" mechanic.
- Add an environmental challenge to maxed out combat builds (Strong, Tough, Athletic, Melee) by requiring them to find clothing or armor that fits. Crafted items, such as the dogman fur coat, should either be exempt (the player will always craft it to fit themselves) or created in the player's size (which makes more sense, but may be more headache to do than is worth).

The main thing I need to figure out first is this:
- Is there a way to determine a body size for a creature based on traits it has selected?

For example: Humans start at a baseline of 10 (this could be 0, but I wanted to keep positive integers). If they pick the Strong or Tough trait, they would add 2. Athletic or Melee adds 1. Weak subtracts 2, and Frail subtracts 1.

Would using a Condition work? (Apply +2 to nBodySize if Strong trait is detected on spawn/load). Some other method?

The second thing to determine is this:
- Is there a way to prohibit clothing items from being worn based on a condition or variable? Can this be a range instead of a single locked number?

For example: You selected Strong and have an nBodySize of 12. You pick up a pair of boots that can only be worn by someone with an nBodySize of 11, 12, or 13. It can be equipped normally.

Finally:
- Is there a way to add a Condition if certain conditions are met? Similar to the "Wearing a Tough Glove," but designed more for ill-fitting clothes. Can these conditions stack?

For example: You have an nBodySize of 12. You can wear boots sized 11, 12, or 13 without penalty. A size of 10 applies "Tight-fitting boots" and a 5% faster fatigue rate. If you wear a pair, it stacks to 10% faster fatigue rate. A size of 14 applies "Ill-fitting boots" and a 3% faster fatigue rate per boot.

NPC creatures should, in theory, only be able to equip what will fit based on what traits they have, following the same rules as the player.

For full concept as I have it written out so far, click the spoiler:

Spoiler: Highlight to view

Start at Medium (nBodySize="10" nBodyGroup="0")
Strong: Size +2 Group +2
Tough: Size +2 Group +1
Athletic: Size +1 Group +0
Melee: Size +1 Group +0
Weak: Size -2 Group -1
Frail: Size -1 Group -1
(Apply variables as conditions?)

Use nBodySize for footwear (sized numerically). nBodyGroup for clothing (sized as a group)

BodyGroup Sizing:
-2: Small
-1: Small
0: Medium
1: Large
2: XL
3: XXL

Clothing Thresholds (up to 9 stacks? however many slots there are...):
2 groups smaller: Cannot Equip ("It's too small to wear.")
1 group smaller: Tight-fitting Clothes (2% faster fatigue rate, 2% decreased warmth)
Bodygroup-sized: No penalty
1 group larger: Ill-fitting Clothes (1% faster fatigue rate, 2% increased warmth)
2 groups larger: Cannot Equip ("It's too large to wear.")

Footwear Thresholds (up to 2 stacks):
3 sizes smaller: Cannot Equip ("It's too small to wear.")
2 sizes smaller: Tight-fitting Boots (5% faster fatigue rate)
1 size smaller: No penalty
Body-sized: No penalty
1 size larger: No Penalty
2 sizes larger: Ill-fitting Boots (3% faster fatigue rate)
3 sizes larger: Loose-fitting Boots (5% faster fatigue rate, 2% decreased warmth)
4 sizes larger: Cannot Equip ("It's too large to wear.")

Consider also an "Unopened Shoebox, size n" item. When used, grants a pair of 100% boots in the size indicated, then turns into "Shoebox" and can be used as regular storage (holds one pair of hiking or tactical boots as indicated). Can also randomly scavenge the empty shoebox itself at times.

you would also need to make it to work with the more skills mod. Which I believe is now part of the make shifter mod. Also, tight clothes shouldn't affect fatigue. It is more of a comfort thing, although there is currently no comfort stat. This could also be the mentality of the "one size fits all"

I am that low life scum that hunts down a scavenger, laughs as he tries to surrender, beats him to death with my club, and eats his gummy bears before moving onto the next sucker.

I'm only really looking to make it standalone, not collaborative. If someone wants to add these features to their own mod, though, that's cool. But I don't even know for sure if what I want to add is possible within the scope of the game right now. :)

Dan would have to confirm that, but as far as I know, there is no way to actually add any new info-fields to the game. Not via this kind of modding we have available at least. So you won't really can add a nBodySize, or anything similar.

What I can propose you could do is a much simpler system, that would "fake" clothing size stuff - similar to the way Cataclysm DDA does that things.

Create copies of standard clothes but with "(too small)" and "(too large)" descriptors near their name, and make them apply negative conditions when worn. Then modify the treasure tables to include mostly too large/too small clothes, with only a small % of those fitting (how big that % would be, depends on how generous that system should be).

That would not take skills into the account of course, but it doesn't really matter as player does not gain those skills while playing. So making 25% of all dropped clothing fit players with certain skills in your proposition, can simply be simulated by making only 25% of all clothing drop in versions without the "small/large" descriptors.

EDIT: That would also be a more user-friendly system, since even if you were able to add a BodySize info-field, that would still wont show on any clothes player could find, so he would have to experiment with every piece separately, to know if it fits. In that simplified system, name of the item would speak for itself.


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
DeviantArt Gallery of MoD Sprites

Hmm. That would solve the "one size doesn't fit all" issue neatly, but doesn't really change the mechanics for combat-maxed builds while leaving other builds mostly intact. I was kind of interested in seeing what these changes would have to the mechanics of play. I'll have to think on it some.

You could make wearing non-fitting clothes impose a negative Conditions that would affect fighting skills, as well as insulation and heat management.


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
DeviantArt Gallery of MoD Sprites

I believe he's referring to the fact that it wouldn't punish combat-based builds. Which is his goal.

I am that low life scum that hunts down a scavenger, laughs as he tries to surrender, beats him to death with my club, and eats his gummy bears before moving onto the next sucker.

First of all, it would somewhat punish them - non-combat builds aim to not participate in combat by definition, so having additional negative combat modifiers caused by wearing non-fitting clothes would mostly affect those who fight often (combat builds).

Secondly, cloth-made clothing is not all that important in fighting, so if the aim of the modification is to punish the fighters, I believe some other sphere of character should be taken into consideration instead.


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
DeviantArt Gallery of MoD Sprites

No, I'm afraid that wouldn't work. I'm not looking to actively punish maxed combat builds, and I'm certainly not looking to make their combat ability less effective. I'm just looking to add a different dynamic to scavenging equips and see how that impacts play as well as how it impacts NPC creatures (which is a source of scavenging).

For example, let's say you run into a Bad Mutha that is Weak and Frail. You've got Strong and Athletic. It isn't hard to overpower them. But you're going to be limited on what clothing you can scavenge off of them since they're smaller than you are. Using my personal experiences in the game (especially the first minutes), the dynamic where I actively hunt and overpower every NPC encounter to scavenge better clothes now changes, as I'm only really going to be rewarded by overpowering NPCs with similar attributes. The risk-reward for something as simple as a t-shirt or a pair of boots shifts a bit.

But I'm curious to know how much it would shift, especially if scavenging common-sized items in tiles occurs more often than larger-sized items. If you're a big guy, you know how hard it can be to find clothes, especially footwear, that fits when you go shopping. That dynamic should be reflected in this mod.

Ok, now I see.
There are two problems that I can see with that very idea:

1. Your system assumes that the stronger, more healthy, person is larger, and weaker folks are smaller, a simplification that might be seen as unrealistic. In that model, it would also mean that the stronger groups (melonheads -> looters -> bad muthas -> blue frogs) are actually, physically bigger than the weaker ones.

2. The system assumes that the weaker (smaller) NPCs are wearing fitting clothing that would not be useful to the larger "weakling hunters".

The game, however, generates items for NPCs by random chance from a pre-set pools. And that pool/random chance depicts looters (feeble/frail guys) as very poorly equipped in general, often missing things as important as shoes (they have 50% chance to have each one), or any warmer clothing past pants and/or t-shirt.

In-character-wise, one could assume that this is due to their lack of skill necessary to acquire better equipment and their dependence on random loot.

So it wouldn't be far fetched to assume that most of the smaller NPCs would be actually wearing clothes of more or less random sizes, making the whole experiment much less insightful.


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
DeviantArt Gallery of MoD Sprites

Yeah, I'm not fond of tying body size to attributes, but there isn't an option to select height, build, etc. I agree that it's not very realistic, but I just worked with what was there when tinkering with this concept. :)

I didn't know that certain groups, like looters, were always set to be feeble/frail. I thought that their attributes were generated at random. That would throw a bit of a wrench in the gears, making it much harder than originally thought to hunt equipment off of NPCs for larger players.

Being able to wear clothes within a range, even if a penalty is applied, would presumbaly offset the issue a little, but maybe not as much as I was expecting.

Ah well. It was still an interesting idea to toy around with my head. :)