[WIP] Extended NeoScav v3.2 (Archived Comments)

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Coffee will be like that, but the powder should probably stack. Maybe all powders should stack to at least 5 or something. The container, which will probably be a tin can, should be usable in the same way you can use soup cans both as containers and in crafting recipes.

Also, I totally forgot about the Junk Market and C-Store. I'm not sure but I think they should sell lighters with different amounts of lighter fluid inside.

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The C-Store would sell non-refillable lighters full and refillables Empty. They would also sell full bottles of lighter fluid. The reason for this is because their stock is newly crafted items. They would also sell flour, and coffee, once implemented, along with any non-crafted canned food. So, canned ham they would have, a Can of Mulligan Stew they would not have. However they might have some alternative to 'Mulligan Stew' which would be a pre-packaged stew made in the city. They might also have Potatoes, but I am not certain in that regard, would depend on how much of a store the C-Store wants to be, but seeing as they are the only store accessible in the West Side of Detroit Mega City, I would consider it likely they would carry any portable food item available.

New update for today. It includes:

-Coffee. It comes in stackable powder inside cans. It's similar to Corn-a-Cola but you need to prepare it to consume it. It can be looted pretty much everywhere but it's kinda rare. It's also sold in the C-Store.
-Repairable Guns. Only available to Mechanics. Players first need to disassemble two guns of the same kind with a multitool/Tool Kit, a Tarp and Medium Thread to store the parts inside. Then, combine the parts using a Tool Kit and 5 units of Lighter Fluid to clean/repair and reassemble a 100% condition gun.
-Now the C-Store sells Full Lighters instead of Lighters filled with different amounts of Lighter Fluid.
-Different sprite for Sound Traps. They are now unlabeled tin cans.


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Found a bug, Chiko. You can use the lighter casing to make a fire and it'll not degrade the amount of lighter fluid you have. :I It's weird lol XD

It actually does. It just doesn't update it in the crafting window. It will show the current amount after you are done crafting.

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I just wanted to pop in and say: this mod is superb, it makes the game just that much more expansive and doesn't ruin the feel of it. The art style fits right in and the mod does alot to give you more freedom.

Also, I have a few suggestions:

Making leather is so time & energy consuming right now that I feel like it takes fun away for the sake of realism, perhaps make leather tanning take the same amount of time units that making arrows do (1), or basically anything less than 2.5 would be a good compromise. Or for that matter, allow us to disassemble boots for leather.

Mulligan stew degrades about 90% in one day, which doesn't seem fair since it takes a bit of crafting to make. I feel like stew would degrade slower than cooked meat, but I suppose it is wet, so I'm not completely sure on the validity of that.

Scrap weapons are so powerful! The scrap machete seems to two-shot Dogmen without issue on a character with both Melee and Strong traits. I don't think it should be nerfed, as it makes sense that bladed weapons would do serious damage. I do think scrap metal should be much more rare, however, and the Scrap Machete should require the Melee trait in its recipe.

A scrap metal shield which can do blunt damage (maybe a new attack type labeled [Bash] or some such replacing the tackle attack) and block (makes character *Fallen* status in order to guaranteed-block projectiles, character has to go prone to have full coverage by the shield -- is the idea.)

Scrap metal vest which protects like DMC vests but is much heavier (taken into account my notion of scrap metal being much more rare.)

Tin cans into tin scraps which can be used to make more damaging and durable arrows as well as being usable in noise traps and other crafting recipes which require small metal parts.

... and that's it for now, thanks for reading, and thank you for this awesome mod.

I like this game's mind o3o Scrap metal vest seems so badass XDDDD But yeah, he's right. Some spawn rates need to be lowered and some things should be nerfed a little bit.

Thanks for the feedback!

About leather. Tanning leather actually takes a lot more time IRL. It's not something players should be able to do early in the game. I'm still thinking about ways to make tanning a lategame feature without making it annoying, though. Tanning is indeed the most time consuming crafting in the mod, but in lategame you end up with so much stuff that you actually start making tons of it. Leather items take a while to degrade too so once you are done with the current leather crafts, it would be a long time after you need to make leather again.

Mulligan Stew does degrade a bit too quickly... It used to degrade even faster before. I guess I could make it degrade slower. Prepared foods like these should be consumed immediately, though. These are not supposed to be stored, unless Dan adds a way to make items degrade slower when in certain containers.

You are right about Scrap Weapons. They actually have less damage output than blunt weapons but they end up doing more damage for some reason. It might be a code thing with cutting damage. I agree about making them harder to get. The extra requirements also sound reasonable enough. I could also make them degrade faster as a counter measure for how dangerous they are.

The shield idea is interesting. I'll see what I can do to implement something like that. Scrap Metal Armor is something I've been wanting to implement for a while now. It should be more like reinforced leather armor, basically.

And I dunno about the tin scraps. Someone in Steam suggested a smaller version of scrap metal, which could be used for making scrap knives and those arrow points you suggest for stronger arrows.

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Yeah, I did a little research after my post to see what tanning leather actually entails and found a few interesting things about how to color them: corn! smoking leathers with corn produces a more yellow colored leather much in the like of the hide long coat and the smoking method using wood makes a much darker leather in the same vein as your leather equipment. Maybe corn could be a new lootable from those agriculture zones? *nudge* *nudge* ;D

Perhaps some sort of tanning rack would suffice as a tool to make leather more late-game? Though I'm not sure how exactly to implement the time & steps taken to dry and smoke the leather, I was thinking of it being a container that only holds cleaned pelts and "degrades" them once inside. Though that again would require changing degradation of objects in certain containers.

Tin can + rock/blunt device + rags = metal shiv. More durable than its glass counterpart, doesn't require the melee skill to make. Just a thought if you intend to make the metal knives require the Melee skill as well.

I can suggest, as an experiment, to use decaying mechanic for tanning, as it is mostly a passive (if time consuming) process. It could work something like that:

- fresh skin is heavy and has to dry up before being processed (has to decay from "freshly removed skin" into lighter, tannable "dried up skin" for a day or so)
- then player tans it with chemicals/fat/wathever (crafting step 1 that gives "skin prepared for tanning") and has to hang it on the tanning rack (crafting step 2)
- now it has to hang on that rack untill it decays from "skin prepared for tanning" into "leather", for +/- a week. During that time player cannot move the rack and has to defend it ("skin on a tanning rack", unmovable camp fixture, smells like crap and lowers the Concealment stat to basically zero).

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Love this suggestion. It reminds me a lot of the tanning process in Unreal World. Using the current passive degrading system would mean the player would have to stick around the tanning racks but that's not so bad. There are already unmovable items in the game so tanning racks should be fairly easy to do.

The rest of this suggestion should be possible aswell. This is exactly what tanning needs to be. Next update will probably implement this. :3

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Glad you liked it ;D

Just one more thing - you may have to make sure that once skin finishes tanning, the resulting "leather" drops on the ground (and has monetary value).

If you don't do that, NPCs wont be able to steal it. A bit unrealisticly, but they wont be able to take it anytime sooner, because the tanning rack will be an unmovable camp fixture (they would not be interested in half-done leather anyway). There needs to be a risk factor included, so they should be able to steal the resulting produce, at least. Otherwise, player will be able to set the racks up, leave and return anytime later, sure that no one was able to steal his work from him.

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Makes sense and it actually requires less stuff to implement that way. :P

The racks will take some precious space, and along with the reduction of the camp concealment stat, players will most likely set up the tanning racks at least 1 hex away from their camp, which will make it more risky.

Also, the first produce Step 1 will yield will be Rawhide, which can either be used to make the longcoats used by the Anishinabe or be turned into Leather in the next steps of tanning. I will probably add the ability to turn these longcoats back into Rawhide Patches but half the quantity used to make them will be lost so players can skip step 1 if they have the money to buy longcoats for this purpose. I will add more uses for Rawhide in later updates too.

Edit: I think 7x8 is an ok size for the tanning racks.

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I was thinking more of a "deer gives a whole skin, which you then dry and tan and portion into smaller pieces, as needed, later" actually, with like 12x12 skin/14x16 rack. But that is great too, and much less work ;D

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That tanning rack sprite is amazing! I can tell that this is going to be the go-to mod here with your artwork, excellent job.

I can see it now, a hex devoted to tanning racks with a mountain of Bad Mutha corpses surrounding it XD

About scrap metal armor why not something between mix of the flap armor and leather armor? You know leather armor with scrap of metal as plating.

Similar to japan armors or just the flap armors:
Its just an idea

Will definitely be trying this out.

Quick question: will sheets of paper with your new recipes be generated in the game, like they are for vanilla recipes?

Yeah, there are recipe pages for most if not all of the new craftables from what I've seen. The NEOScavenger engine may even generate them automatically.

It does, I noticed recipes I've added show up on scraps of paper, so it's automatic.

So... now that coffee is implemented and we have whiskey, maybe I can implement a second mixed drink, Irish Coffee but under a different name. Ideas for that name?

Maybe Wolverine Coffee, Black Indiana or Indiana Wolverine? That's pretty much all I could come up right now. xD

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I like Indiana Wolverine, my imput is "Jack-rabbit Java"


"Jacked-up Java"/"Jacked Java"

That name remind me of Jazz Jack rabbit :D

Fantastic mod so far; been enjoying it. A few thoughts:

I don't see the point to the leather waterskin, which is, as far as I can tell, inferior in every way to a plastic bottle: uses more space, weighs more. Shoulder bag with two plastic bottles in it beats it as well. For my own purposes, I modified it so that it would store two "drops", which at least puts it on par with a soft birch bag with two plastic bottles, for the purpose of carrying liquids, at least.

Would be neat (and relatively easy to add, I think, just a recipe) to be able to make a sled out of scrap metal.

You should be able to craft a toolkit, in case you don't find one forever; I got lucky in the current game. Maybe with a wrench, a multitool, a bunch of small parts, and a piece of scrap metal?

Would be neat for the electrician skill to enable you to make crude batteries (perhaps using Corn-a-cola?)

That's it for now. :)

Hehe Irish coffee all day.

Noticed a bug with the hooded hoodie, some objects can't be stored in the pockets. Some examples being; water tester, copper beads, clean rags, and pill bottles that I've noticed so far.

That's a bug from a previous version. You sure you are using v1.6? I remember fixing this one in v1.5b, if I remember correctly.

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I can't recall which I have, but it's not the newest. I did a search, but couldn't find a mention of the bug.

Lol yeah. I usually forget to mention bugs I find on my own and then fix. Specially after days of fixing it before uploading the bugfix patch. :P

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Hey question Chiko, is there anyway you could repair the possibility to use Lighters when scavenging? I just hate always getting a roof collapsed ontop ontop of me because I don't have the sticks/dirty rags to make a Torch or being able to find a flashlight with actual working AA batteries in it lol, thanks for reading. Also I can't wait for further updates, my favorite mod by far for NEOScavenger! :D

I kinda find using lighters for this purpose rather unrealistic, since it only uses 1 charge for a overpowered looting bonus, which makes looting extremely easy. Sticks and Rags are among the most common items in the game too, and you can even use other items and use them as replacement for the sticks. Flashlights are not common but batteries are kinda cheap in the C-Store. :P

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Also another question, can you impliment repairable vehicles for mechanic class people? :P

There's actually a way to repair vehicles already. Mechanics just need to disassemble the vehicles and reassemble them using parts in better condition. It will still show the condition of the most damaged part but those individual parts will still be in better condition.

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I bring to you, Philip Kindred: Warrior Medic.


Brought to you by Extended Neoscav :D

Niiice. That's a definite loadout deserving of some fan art.

I was thinking the same thing! I was envisioning this leatherclad dude just busting in the door of a decrepit building with a sawnoff in one hand and a rusty scrap machete in the other.. awesome.

Too bad I have no artistic talent whatsoever or I'd already be working on it XD

Same. Though I find myself a quick learner at some things. Lemme get back to you on that :)

Nice! Leather Vest and Longcoat actually look good. I always use hoodies. xD

Also, a question for all of you: Normal Shotgun or Sawoff? If Sawoff is your choice, then why? The range restriction from 30 to 10 is pretty severe but I see lots of ppl choosing the Sawoff.

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The badass factor? Being able to stuff it in your backpack/sawnoff holster? Both? I know it's both for me. Sawnoffs are just ridiculously awesome.

Yeah, saw-off for the pure bad-assery of it... But I've always been a RP-person, and so my favorite vanilla gun was the revolver. Because Clint Eastwood.

Also, it is new and it is always cooler to play with the newest toys ;D

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It's totally fun to RP. I might take it a step to far with arranging my traits and skills to make up a pseudo-backstory/arranged in a logical way, like so. Hm.. had an idea. If the sawnoff could be scavenged, maybe it'd be more common to loot than the shotgun.

I find that the AI tends to stop trying to use cover when within 10 range, making the sawnoff particularly effective at getting off a crackshot when they're charging you, pretty much guaranteeing a stun and crippled limbs. Also, the reduced size of the sawnoff makes it fit perfectly in a backpack for when you need a second backpack for carrying space or a bow for longrange attacks. Basically I use it as a 10 range melee weapon.

Also, any chance of a hood for the long coat? Maybe it could use the same sort of method that adding a strap to a weapon does (I.E. being a seperate craftable hood that can be attached to the long coat using thread and shares durability)

Hey Giraffe may I ask what your skill selection is and how long you've survived for? That character looks amazingly badass btw XD

Guess it's time to work on that new tanning mechanic. I already have the sprites so only the code part needs to be done. I could use some feedback on some new changes regarding this, though. Since tanning with take less time in the crafting window and more time waiting for it to be ready, leather patches should be considered bigger. What about these new values:

Tanning Rack + Cutting Tool + 2 Animal Hide + 2 Water = Rawhide Patch (1 hour)
Cutting Tool + Rawhide Patch = 4 Rawhide Strap (1.4 hours)
Cutting Tool + Rawhide Patch + 6 Medium Thread + Any Strap = Rawhide Waterskin (1 hour)
Cutting Tool + 4 Rawhide Patch + 8 Medium Thread + Any Strap = Rawhide Quiver (1.2 hours)
Cutting Tool + 10 Rawhide Patch + 15 Medium Thread = Rawhide Longcoat (2 hours)
Tanning Rack + Cutting Tool + Rawhide Patch + Tanning Material + 2 Ash + 2 Water = Leather Patch (1 hour)

Tool Kit + Leather Patch + 3 Medium Thread = Leather Cap (1 hour)
Tool Kit + 5 Leather Patch + 15 Medium Thread = Leather Vest (2.5 hours)
Tool Kit + Leather Patch + 8 Medium Thread = 2 Leather Gloves (1.8 hours)
Tool Kit + 2 Leather Patch + 10 Medium Thread = 2 Leather Boots (1.4 hours)
Tool Kit + 2 Leather Patch + 4 Medium Thread + Any Strap = Handgun Holster (1.4 hours)
Tool Kit + 3 Leather Patch + 6 Medium Thread + 2 Any Strap = SawOff Holster (1.6 hours)

As you can see, most leatherworking recipes will need less leather, since leather tanning will take considerable more time to craft. It says it only takes 1 hour to craft but you won't be able to use leather immediately. Leather will take a while before you can retrieve it from the tanning rack... Maybe a couple of days, I have yet to decide that part but Leather and Leathercrafts will sell for more money because of this.

The ATN enclave will probably sell Rawhide, and Rawhide Longcoats could be recycled for Rawhide Patches.
Quivers and Waterskins will be made of Rawhide instead, making them easier to obtain.
Rawhide Straps will be alternatives to the greenish rifle shoulder straps. I will change the rifle/shotgun recipes to only accept either of these 2 but no medium threads, which are probably too weak to work as a strap for these guns.

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It really depends on how will it feel in-game, isn't it?

Anyway, you do remember that the game is lying through it's teeth when it comes to crafting times, right? When recipe says "hours" it really means moves, which are 5 times shorter (12 minutes). So we are talking moves right here, not actual hours (turns), I guess?

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Yep, moves. I was checking on Unreal World files and it uses hours so the word got stuck in my head. xD

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Looks awesome, very balanced. Can't wait for this new update :D

Totally not related to this topic (I did just download the mod though), but, Chiko, did you happen to play a game called Dead Frontier? Maybe...500000 years ago?


I guess to make this comment a tad bit more relevant:
Something I have always been wanting to see (given even more inspiration from The Forest) is the ability to turn corpses into effigies for use around camp sites to keep certain enemies away (scare them off, maybe). Or even something like hanging bodies, y'know.

Lol yeah, ages ago. I actually still lurk the DF Forums once in a while. I do remember your username. I made a sig for you, if I'm not wrong.

Also, I remember reading that very same suggestion somewhere here in the mod section. I even saw some sprites with impaled heads and stuff. I think forbidden hexes coding was just lifted from the hard-code so this might be possible to implement. :O

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It has been many years.... But, you probably did make a sig! I don't remember. I was just a young lil' troll back then. All grown up now though, hahaha!

How weird though.. even on the internet it's a "small world", as they say. Amazing.

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