[WIP] Extended NeoScav v3.2 (Archived Comments)

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Fock sake, i messed up ;( How will I now carry my water for my day-trips :(

Loving the mod btw, took down 2 Dogmen earlier today and survived without a scratch. Thank god for the Scrap Machete!

When a mosquito lands on your testicle, you realize that violence may not always be the best solution.

I like the design of the homemade bomb already Chiko! :D Seems really sick. Now, where would we get the like...more lighter fluid? Or can we make it? I'm completely fine if you add that feature back into the game tbh, seems much more complex which adds more mind boggling fun-ness whilst trying to stay away from the constant threat of dying :P And you're also thinking of making bullets able to be taken apart? That seems really good in all honesty, I like where it's heading. Keep up the good work.

P.S. Watch is gonna be the best thing ever lmao

I just managed to bring refillable lighters back. =D
Also, the only way to get lighter fluid is from other lighters. You will find lighters containing different amounts of the fluid, which you can take and stack up to 100 charges inside another lighter. Using a lighter consumes 1 charge and degrades the lighter a 0.1% so lighters will still eventually break.

There are some other things I should mention about this.
-I will probably remove lighters from the things Zom Zom's want as payment since ppl could just give them empty lighters.
-Using lighters in crafting seems to be buggy. It says the lighter is empty and with 0 charges even if you have it full. Another option to implement the use of lighters in crafting would be to edit the recipes to ask for both the lighter and the lighter fluid as separated ingredients, which is a bit weird.

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In my opinion I see lighters and lighter fuel being used in crafting as a little bit of realism as it needs a trigger (friction from the lighter which would eventually wear out) and a flamable enough fuel(on that side note I'd love to see different types of fuels to be used each with certain advantages and disadvantages(normal lighter fluid,petroleum and oil and magnesium and stuff like that. Would give more variety))

And from where would one get his hands on some magnesium? ...From the rod of a fire steel! :D

When a mosquito lands on your testicle, you realize that violence may not always be the best solution.

I've been using fire steel in my trips for almost a year. And I must say it requires some skills if you want to make a fire, not just magnificent sparks. If you have required skills, fire steel and proper material you'd be able to make hundreds campfires. But if you don't have proper fire starting material it's like 10 or less campfires on one unit (if it consists of magnesium). If you don't have this skill - divide results by 10. Meanwhile those, who have skill, and own just one small propane BIC lighter could make hundreds campfires if they have proper starting material and sth. like a 50-100 if they don't.

The goal of fire steel is not to be "endless" fire starter but to make your campfire crafting skills higher.

What about these other changes?

-Increase the sprite size of Lighter Fluid from 1x1 to 2x3. You will be able to store this liquid in other containers.
-Increase the sprite size of soup, stew, tallow and bark solution to 2x3 so they use all the room in containers for liquids.
-Increase the inventory size of the Soup Can to 2x3. It's still not possible to store normal liquids like water in these.
-Since the first aid kit is thinner than other containers, you can only store certain items in them. This will prevent strapped kits to be the best shoulder inventory container and make it just a different one.
-Small changes to some vanilla items to change their "size" in containers. An example would be a pill bottle, which would be too small to be carried in a Travois but big enough to be carried in shopping carts.

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Not sure if lighter change is good, emperorza have this indestructible lighter but its kinda worse to use and annoying, refilling to 100 is bad concept because 100 uses is alot.

How does that indestructible lighter works?

This one works the same as before, the only difference is now you need lighter fluid inside for it to work. Vanilla lighters already have a max of 100 uses, the only difference is now you can stack those uses. I want to bring this back because I'd like lighter fluid to be used in crafting recipes, including homemade bombs and as another option to tallow and bark solution in the tanning of hides.

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He have second lighter with fuel, only that it need to be opened to work and can be used as torch. Nerfed stack to 10 because 99 was like, never need to change and normal lighter still was more practical because of not need to open it. (I need to say torch use of it is pretty neat if you don't have nightvision).
I proposed to him to use lighter fuel as just propane and it will be same to his lighter and go kart, but nope.

For me problem is with idea of refilling because its time consuming thing (you need to have it in hands or empty out everything, where normal lighter is common and faster)

Oh, mine works nothing like that. The only reason for you to access its inventory is either to get the fuel inside for crafting purposes or to refill it.
As I mentioned before, the only difference is lighter fluid count as interactable charges.

You can completely ignore the refilling part, if you find it that time consuming. Finding a lighter with 100 uses is extremely rare but you will find some with 34 uses or 17, so it's pretty much just like before, but with the refill option for players who care about having a lighter with all its uses and want to get rid of the extra ones.

Also, torches get little use in this game, so I'm thinking about removing the ability to use lighters as light sources when looting at dark. Using a lighter for looting uses only 1 charge, which is kinda unrealistic and makes things too easy. Hopefully, this will increase the use of torches. It makes a lot more sense that way because one wouldn't waste a lighter when looting when you could just lit something else with it.

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Yeah nightvision + lighter when scavenging is kinda stupid and unrealistic.
But turning on flashlight manually just for sake scavenging is quite annoying in same way, If you could make them usable with off status but steal eating energy and deteroration it would be great (same to nightvision gogles)

If NV Goggles already work like that, then it should be easy to do the same with the flashlight code. Also, I know what you mean about the flashlight. I usually just destroy them coz I'm too forgetful to use the on/off feature for looting. xD

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Sadly both need to be turned on to work :/

I'm checking the code. I know why it's like this. It's the only way for them to use batteries/degrade. Nothing I can do there.

Also, this means vanilla lighters actually don't degrade at all when used in looting. :O

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Uh wait, but scavenging with lighter deterorate it actually. Maybe there something more to this ?

What about situation when there is moded flashlight that what have charges instead batteries slot?

I'll give the vanilla lighters a try, just to be sure.

And I don't really want to edit the flashlights like that. I know turning them on/off can be annoying but it makes sense for them to use replaceable batteries instead of having a fixed number of charges.

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I didn't exactly understand enough to say whether or not bad. But I can say this. You're going to like...Make it more....Idk, I guess nerfing a shit ton of stuff so that it can't be taken advantage of? .3.

I didn't quite got that question. What other stuff would need to be nerfed?

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Adding the attack for the canned bomb was the trickiest hack I have done so far... but it works now. you can only throw them from ranges 6 to 8. They will knock down targets to the ground, do the weapon damage plus up to 3 minor cuts and 1 bruising damage. Missing will only have a chance to knock the target down and still damage the target but not as much.

Also, you cannot melee attack while holding one because reasons. :P
If you really want to know why, you cannot because this is actually a melee attack. It's too complicated for me to explain why but in short, having it as a ranged attack would mean no ranged attacks with other weapons while holding a grenade. It makes more sense effecting melee attacks because who would engage in melee while holding something that explodes so easily as when being thrown/dropped? You can still use attacks like head butt, leg trip or engage in grappling, to name a few.

Imma go to sleep now. I will run some tests on it to see all changes are working like they should and release the update... Tomorrow.

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Are the canned bombs too powerful?
This is what happens when you don't miss the throw. It usually insta-screw lightly armored targets. The misses still cause damage but like a lot less.

They do use a lot of materials... and it should be restricted to the mechanic skill. Also, should enemies have a small chance to spawn with one of these?

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Make small chance that player can be damaged from this too and I think it would be good counter balance

Good idea. And missing the throw will have even a higher chance for that to happen.

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I'd pay good money to get a canned bomb threw at me, Chiko. It'd be interesting to try to ward off foes whilst getting pierced by flying pieces of sharp garbage penetrating your skin XD Also, maybe some more high-tech bombs that only the DMC people spawn with? Like Inceds, Discomb, smoke, etc? :D

Well, DMC guards use swat gear so they could carry flashbangs. Which could cause blindness for a couple of turns and/or knockdown.

Incendiary weapons would be cool but I cannot implement them since there's no burn damage.

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Do you think that maybe you could add in glasses? :o Because Myopia = Near sightness. And if you're near sighted you get glasses, right? Just an idea I had since I myself have Myopia irl XD

Makes sense. I can already see an issue with them, though. I have no way to make them work only on players with myopia, if I add them, all will get the benefits from wearing them. Maybe if there was a "aPreConditions" in conditions that would only allow a condition to apply only if the user has the conditions set in there, but there's no such thing.

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Mkay, so I haven't found bugs with the new stuff so far, guess it's time for a release. One last thing about canned bombs, though. The crafting recipe. What about this:

Mechanic Skill
Tool Kit
1x Soup Can
10x Small Parts
4x Gun Ammo
1x Whiskey
600x Lighter Fluid (6 full lighters)

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I don't know much about explosives, but isn't mixing a gunpowder with any liquid (even a burning one) a bit counter-productive, as in - would do nothing?

Maybe, if you want it to be a firebomb, make it not use ammo but a rag for a fuse (like in Molotov cocktails, although I do not believe lighter fluid is actually "liquid-y" or volatile enough to be used in weapons like that). If you want it to be a powder-based pressure bomb (like the XVIII century grenades), make it use a lot more ammo (10-15), but no liquids. And it would need a "real" fuse and fire anyway.

<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
DeviantArt Gallery of MoD Sprites

Oh no, I meant to use the cartridges, with their primers altered, to detonate the bomb upon hitting something. The powder would still be inside the casings. This is why you need a tool kit and the mechanic skill to make these bombs.

I've been thinking about making them a bit unstable because of this. Meaning a 1% chance of going off every time you move it around like when you put it in a hand, or when you put it in your inventory. I'm not implementing it, just an idea I have in mind.

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New update. It's mostly small changes but here's a list of the new changes:

-First Aid Kits can only store certain items. Mostly small and thin items. Now they aren't the best shoulder storage item now but a different one.
-All lighters are refillable now. They cannot be used as payment in Zom Zom's. They cannot be used as light source when looting in the dark, giving torches more importance.
-Lighter Fluid (600 charges) can be used as an alternative to tallow or bark solution in tanning hides into leather.
-Increase the sprite size of soup, stew, tallow and bark solution to 2x3 so they use all the room in containers for liquids.
-Increase the inventory size of the Soup Can to 2x3. It's still not possible to store normal liquids like water in these.
-Small changes to some vanilla items to change their "size" in containers. An example would be a pill bottle, which would be too small to be carried in a Travois but big enough to be carried in shopping carts.
-New item, Wrist Watch. It tells the current time when equipped but it also degrades.
-Canned Bombs. Powerful thrown weapons which can cause multiple wounds in one hit. You need to hold a lighter and have lighter fluid to be able to use one. You cannot melee attack while holding a grenade.

Download link and more info in the main post.

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Hmm... Since the fuse in canned bombs is pretty much a medium string coated in lighter fluid, maybe it shouldn't really require you to have it in your inventory to lit the fuse. The spark from lighters should be enough to lit them. Also, torches should be able to be used as well.

Also, forgot to mention tool kits are available for purchase in the Junk Market. Oh, and both the tool kit and wrist watch are valid as payment to enter zom zom's.

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Nice, I'm realy very happy, this is the best mod. Good job. But..

I have a small lags when I'm trying to take (when I'm clicking on) one stack (100 units) lighter fluid. I dont know why, my PC is very good :D
And this: http://i58.tinypic.com/2qa4uop.jpg
Third zero is not in one line with the others. It look strange, and if you can (if it is possible) please fix it. Thanks.

Thanks for the feedback. I think both issues have something to do with how small the lighter fluid sprite is. I can fix this by either making the sprite bigger or by reducing the max stack to 99. Probably the later option.

Edit: Actually, the lag issue happens because of the number of stacks. The bigger it is, the more it lags when you interact with it. There are a couple of things I could do to address this:

1-Just leave it at 99. The lag is a bit annoying but you won't be interacting with lighter fluid much anyways.
2-Reduce the stacks to, lets say 25, and increase the room inside lighters from 1x1 to 2x2 so you can still fit 100 uses but in stacks of 25, which will cause a considerable less noticeable lag compared to 99 stacks.

Which one sounds better?

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The lag might be coming from the game spawning way too many items for crafting screen - it has to create literary hundreds of liquid droplets, in extreme cases. There was a similar problem with Electric Charges, so Dan removed them from showing up on crafting screen as they were not necessary. Big, 100+ items, recipes might cause some hick-ups, especially on slower machines.

EDIT: Ninja edit... Anyway, since the game has to create a new set of phantom items for all crafting material available, it does not really matter how the stacks are spread. Creating 600+ items will simply cause a lag regardless.

<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
DeviantArt Gallery of MoD Sprites

I just noticed what it was causing the lag. I attached a condition to lighter fluid once and forgot to remove it. The game was probably applying the condition a hundred times every time I interacted with it. :P

I removed it and there's no lag now. Also, I think 100 or 99 uses are too much for a lighter. Maybe 80 charges max?

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Thanks. Can you release updated version of mod please?
I think that 99 uses is okay but if you think that 80 uses will be better I dont see anything against that. We cant use it for scavenging now, so we dont need 100.

The 1.5b Fix Patch is now in the main page:

-There's no need to have lighter fluid with you to be able to lit a canned bomb. The fuse is coated with it so it only needs a spark from lighters to lit. You can also use torches as an alternative to lighters to be able to use canned bombs.
-Fixed the lag caused by big stacks of lighter fluid. Also, it can only stack to 80 now. It doesn't affect much since you can refill lighters, anyways.
-Since the stacks of lighter fluid are smaller, you need less of it in the alternative recipe to tan hides into leather. I consider 6 stacks to be enough liquid for it so it has been reduced from 600 to 480 charges needed for this recipe.

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Imma work on repairable guns, now. It should only require a Tool Kit and two guns of the same model but it should only be available for players with both the mechanic and ranged skills.

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Using a gun to repair another is a good idea but since guns are already rare there could be some other ways to repair the gun like specifics kits, besides unless the gun is falling apart there shouldn't be the need of new parts like a new barrel or triggers, some basic maintenance using for example some oil(like the bark solution or gasoline) a tarp and small parts should be enough. There shouldn't even be the need for a tool kit but since what I'm suggesting would require some code for the game to recognize if the gun just need some cleaning or a through repair I wouldn't know if this would be possible though it would be pretty realistic and fitting to the setting. Guns are a rarity in this world so keeping the few ones cleaned and functional instead of letting them wear off would make sense.

Well, guns are actually not that rare. I sometimes destroy them instead of selling coz I'm too lazy to go all the way to the markets and sell them and I don't want NPCs getting their hands on them. I think using them instead to repair your own is a better idea than destroy/sell the guns you find.

Initially, I thought about just needing a multitool instead of a tool kit coz all you need irl to disassemble a gun for its parts is a screwdriver, in some cases. Then I thought about the post apocalyptic setting and how much in bad shape a gun would be with ppl not having the means to maintain a gun regularly or to keep it in a place to protect it against the elements, so I decided the tool kit should be used instead. I like the idea of needing oil to clean the parts so maybe lighter fluid could be used for that purpose.

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I'm having problems making the gun repair possible. The only option I see would be to spawn new items and use those instead.
So for instance, maybe we could disassemble the guns:

Multitool/Tool Kit + Gun + Tarp and a Medium String (to make a bag and put the parts inside) = [Gun Name] Parts

Having them as another item will allow me to use them for this purpose. I wish I could just use the guns like I initially wanted but I don't know how to. :(

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I like this idea it would be better than having to carry multiple guns for basic repair those things are big afterall.

Yup, but only in the case of rifles. the Bag containing small gun parts is actually bigger than the handguns but smaller than the sawed off shotgun. You can reassemble the guns back but they will still be damaged. This will make the mechanic skill more useful since this could be used to store rifles using less room.
Only way to repair them would be to combine 2 bags of the same parts. There will be some exceptions, like for instance, you will be able to use a normal 12-gauge shotgun to repair a sawed off 12-gauge shotgun.

As you can see, I edited the look of the Tarp Pack to make it look different.
Inside you can see the bag containing parts from small guns. (Handguns and the Sawoff)
The bigger one carried in one of the hands will be the sprite used for the big gun parts.

The price in there need to be changed, though. It should cost less money to sell a gun like that.

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That's cool maybe you could make the bags stackable like water I don't think it would break realism to much

Ever since I've seen that first weapon mash-up image you created, I said to myself, "I really hope he mods the hell out of this game." In the words of Bender, "Oh chief, you've made me the happiest girl in the whole world!"

Seriously, awesome stuff.

I gotta say, I get more fun modding games than actually playing them for some reason.
Always good to hear you guys like this mod. :3

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You know what this needs Chiko? Coffee. I feel like basically every household, office, and living space has coffee grounds in this day an age. Of course one would have to make it cowboy style but still.

Hmm... I'll also add a container for them. I think coffee comes inside those like plastic bottles in most parts of the world. Either that or in tin cans.

Also, sorry for being kinda inactive, lads. I blame Commandos 2. I'm currently hooked on that game. :P

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Yeah plastic containers or tin cans. Honestly I was thinking about it just being like flour sorta spritewise but more brown. And one could just make it the same way one does tannin tea by boiling water with the coffee in the window too. It kinda sucks that I can't loot with lighters now though, speaking of which does that mean picking up lighters in the C-Store and junk market will be empty now that you added lighter fluids? Bugger all I need to download the newest edition and start playing with the new features. A lot changed in a weak >.<

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