[WIP] Extended NeoScav v3.2 (Archived Comments)

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Can't wait, Chiko. Sounds like NEO Scavenger is slowly, but surely turning into Post-Apocalyptic WWE 14 LOL

Lol yeah. I'll try to balance things later, though. I will just add all the stuff I can first.

Also, It's a good thing NPCs don't require coding for them to use the new moves. Randomly choosing a move is not ideal but it helps adding new stuff a lot.
IMAGE(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa145/ChikoEduardo/BreakFree_zps60653453.png)
For instance, they can now break free from my hugs. D:

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YOOOOOOOOOOOOO I JUST HAD THE BEST IDEA EVER MAN >:D Ready for this? You aren't ready...No one is XDDD Neck snapping c:< Seems so badass. Like the ultimate kill for people skilled in hand to hand combat, or stealth players even. Neck snapping is just naturally so.....Like stated before, badass XD

Sounds similar in function to that backstab move mentioned before. Getting that close to someone while hidden is really difficult so a one hit kill move doesn't sound that overpowered. This could be for players with both the hiding and strong skills.

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I just wanted to say that this mod looks absolutely amazing and I hope you will continue to support and update this mod. Great work!

Thanks! These are usually the kind of posts that keep me away from abandoning modding. :3

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You do Chiko, and I swear to everything holy. I will rip your beard off. You've got so much progress into this mod and modding alone. You're honestly 50% of the reason I play NEO Scavenger everyday bro. The other 50% is because I just love the game in general XD But yeah, your mod's awesome, so don't quit. Keep up the good shit man. :P

So... I've managed enough progress for grappling to actually be playable. So far it includes:

Grapple: Engages into grappling combat with the target. Grappling is a very tiring way of fighting so if you are tired, you will probably black out in the middle of the fight. There's a chance to miss but if you manage to get hold of someone, both will get a new set of moves depending on the role, Grappler/Grappled.

Grappler: The one starting the hold gets more benefits in, meaning a better control of the situation and extra moves depending on their skills.

Grappled: The one being hold off gets it harder to fight in this way, meaning they will get tired more, less chance for the moves to be available and generally a less beneficial version of some of the grappling moves.

Struggle: This is basically the ability to deal damage while grappling. It's comparable to using fists and can sometimes miss. Always available for Grapplers but not always available for Grappled targets.

Release: This will cause you to push the target away, breaking the hold. There's a chance for the target to get damage, fall and lose a turn. Always available.

Break Free: This is similar to release but is only available for Grappled targets. It affects both the Grappled and Grappler. Both get a chance to get damage, fall and lose a turn. Not always available.

Gain Control: This move is available to Grappled targets only when the Grappler is fallen and vulnerable. It will attempt to switch Grappler/Grappled places, leaving the previously Grappled target with control of the grappling hold.

Takedown: A move only available for Melee skilled Grapplers. It will bring both Grappler and Grappled to the ground, but only causing damage to the later. This move can miss, leaving the Grappler vulnerable and with a chance of falling down alone.

Strangle: This move is only available for the Grappler. The grappler will attempt a choke hold, which will distract him for a turn and the target will be left having trouble breathing, that means all next moves will be more tiring for 5 turns, this state stacks so multiples choke holds will render the target blacking out/unconscious. If the target is blacking out but still struggling back, the next strangle hold will render them unconscious. If the target is unconscious and the Grappler decides to use the move again, it will strangle the target to death.

Also, Head Butt, Leg Trip, Pull Down, Get Up, All the Surrender moves and Taunt can be used while grappling aswell with no Grappler/Grappled differences... this will make things a bit more interesting and give strong Grappled targets a better chance to getr the upper hand in a grappling hold. :3

All of the things previously mentioned are working and I haven't found a bug yet. Only Hold Off, Throw Down, Disarm and a stronger version of Struggle are left to include before releasing this set of moves.

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Can't wait for that disarm. Pesky DMC Guards will have to fight like true men now >:D

LOL!!

Good thing I test new additions a lot before releasing something... I just found the most hilarious bug with these moves.

You can engage in wrestling with anything, including deers and dogmen.
Better fix that now.

Edit: I just found a picture that describes one of the situations you could get with this bug. xD!!
IMAGE(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa145/ChikoEduardo/OhDeerGwad_zpsc7c600cb.png)

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WAIT NO KEEP IT MAN D: That would be the most boss thing ever, picture it : Player manages to take Dogman down! People would love that, being able to wrestle with a Dogman! :D It'd be frickin' awesome and make the player feel badass -Put shades on- XD But yeah, you should keep it AND WTF IS THAT PICTURE, CHIKO? XDDDD

I dunno, I just googled "wrestling a deer" and that showed up. xD

Anyways, I'll think about it. I will remove it for now but maybe I will add the ability to grapple with dogmen and others but with different moves and stuff. Probably only available for players with Strong, Tough traits and skilled in Melee. Kinda hard to imagine someone wrestling one of those, if you think realistically. :P

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That made my day so much better... :D


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Actually vs dogman it could be good but dogman should have additional attacks just for him in this situation.
If I remember correctly player on start with strong+melee can choke/bash dogman to death.

Hmm... I forgot about the cryo encounter. Well, that's another +1 in favor to add grappling with a dogman.

Also, about the current project:
-I decided not to add the disarm move. Instead, the "Struggle" move has a small chance to force the target to drop an item from each hand separately.
-Added a new attack, Knee Strikes. It's like Melee Surge but more tiring. It cannot be used with a crippled leg. It's always available for both Grappler and Grappled.
-Made some small edits to make NPCs slightly better at grappling or at escaping from it when they have the chance.

Will try to work on it while I have time right now coz I have a lot of things to do at work today.

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Mkay, lads. Mod update. It includes Grappling and all the moves I previously mentioned. It also includes the strapped spears and a small edit to scrap knives to make them able to stack up to 2 in a slot.

I didn't had much time for testing but the only bug so far was the problem with the unrecoverable ranged weapons.

For more details about the new stuff, check the main page! Hope you guys like the new moves!

Edit: Updated the link with a patched version. It fixes a bug that failed to remove the Grappler status after strangling someone to death while there's another NPC present, making you unable to move. Now you can safely strangle your victims in front of others. :3

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I've killed 4 DMC guards and they all had headrags and no helmet, is that just happening to me lol? Loving everything else but i'm hoping that isn't only a problem on my end. Thanks :)

This is a bug introduced a while ago, a common mistake with the new items back then. :O
The download link has been updated with a fixed version.

You should start a new game coz I think using a loaded game will turn all existing headrags into helmets, not sure.

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Thanks! You're wonderful :). I almost didn't report anything because I assumed I messed something up while looking through the files lol. I was convinced that I wasn't the only person that had to be killing guards.

No problem. I don't usually have much time to play so I can't test the new stuff extensively before releasing it. Feedback and bug reports are very much welcomed. :3

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Are these items sold at the Junk Market?

Nope. All of them need to be crafted or looted. Some of them will be available for buying but I have to see where to find the code for that.

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Do you need to upload the mod for the new build (one that just came out) or can I just update NEOScavenger but keep on using the mod?

The mod will need to be updated for it to work with the new build. That will take a while since I made a lot of changes to vanilla content too and I remember like half of them.

You can still copy the mod files over the ones of the new build but none of the new changes will show. :P

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Could you change the war club back to a range of 2? I find it irritating to buy my favorite weapon and then realize it is as effective as a monkey wrench, range wise. Maybe you could alter the game to make the war club more expensive, and the baseball bat like a cheaper alternative.

I am that low life scum that hunts down a scavenger, laughs as he tries to surrender, beats him to death with my club, and eats his gummy bears before moving onto the next sucker.

Reducing the range on the War Club is a bad plan. A War Club like that is usually around as long as a baseball bat. This is NOT some short stick, it is a long weighted club designed for combat, it SHOULD outshine the baseball bat, because the baseball bat is not designed for combat. nerfing the club is a bad idea. The baseball bat is inherently more common, thusly should be cheaper, should have slightly less damage potential than the war club, which can be modified by adding nails, giving it a bit of slashing/piercing damage, and roughly equal damage potential to the War Club. Also, the War Club, being designed to beat people in the skull, should have better durability than the baseball bat.

I've seen videos of war clubs in action and in all of them the clubs were actually smaller than baseball bats. They are really powerful weapons, which is the case of the ingame ones too. Baseball bats are less durable and damaging than war clubs already. Nail bats are even less durable but they do a 0.5 edge damage.

Maybe I should add a new range. For instance:

Monkey Wrench, Knives, Pistol Whip, etc.
From 0 to 1

War Club, Crowbar, Machete, etc.
From 0 to 2

Baseball Bat, ???, etc.
From 0 to 3

Spears
From 1 to 4

Spear users will gain more range but they won't be able to stab targets at 0 range. If you all agree with this, then I will also add a new attack mode for spears to use the length of the spear to hit at 0-1 range for blunt damage, instead of using the pointy end of them for cutting damage, like in quarterstaff combat.

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The 1-4 idea on spears is interesting.

I don't see bats being range 3 though, they're just not that long. If bats are 3 then so are war clubs and crowbars. Judging by the graphic and weight of NEO's crowbar it seems to be a larger 36" crowbar. Baseball bats by definition/regulation are no more than 42", but your average baseball bat is only 30-34". The Ojibwa war club that Dan based NEO's on seems to be around 30"? Hard to tell on the club.

On a related note, I think machetes should be range 1, they're only 15" long or so, no bigger than other similar range 1 weapons.

I wish there was info about their length in that page. I've been googling about it and some sites mention ball clubs were compact, usually one handed weapons. There are other war clubs that kinda look like hockey sticks, and those were about 30" and maybe two handed as seen in some pics.

Also, I agree on machetes, they are just big knives.
Maybe we should edit the perception of length a bit more...

Fists.
Range: 0

Knives, Pistol Whip, etc.
Range: From 0 to 1

Monkey Wrench, Machete, etc.
Range: From 0 to 2

War Club, ???, etc.
Range: From 0 to 3

Baseball Bat, Crowbar, etc.
Range: From 0 to 4

Spears.
Range: From 1 to 5

Also, I don't know about the Meat Cleaver. I just noticed that thing is almost the size of a Monkey Wrench. Maybe I should leave the Meat Cleaver with the same range as the Monkey Wrench and move the Scrap Machete with the War Club? I made the Scrap Machete about the same size in ingame graphics.

IMAGE(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa145/ChikoEduardo/WeaponRange_zps49ace68e.png)

This will make weapons a bit more unique since there isn't much we can do to make them more different from each other.

And since the Scrap Machete is that long, it makes sense for it to degrade as quickly as it currently does. I've been thinking about making it so when a machete breaks, it turns into a Scrap Knife. :P

Also, what about ranged weapons? I think 10 range for pistols will be too underpowered, specially if we make spears reach 4 or 5 in range.

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I would suggest keepimg things according to the scale. So: wrench 1, club 2, spear 3, and bat somewhere in between (maybe even the spear's reach).

Calculations:

According to Dan's scale (1 pixel = 6.5mm) that war club is 65cm (25,5") long (I estimate it is something like the one on this picture). Assuming the handle length needed to actually hold that thing (around 20 cm), you get something like 45cm (~17") of fighting reach.

Wrench is then 39cm long, handle taking up 15 cm, leaving combat reach of 24 cm.

Wikipedia claims that baseball bat should be no more than 106cm (42") long, which makes it almost twice as long as club and giving it combat reach of circa 90 cm (more than a double of a club) - also making your bat 24 pixels/2,5 inventory grids too short Chiko.

Measuring with the same scale, spears are also only 123 cm long - very makeshift. And keeping in mind that the pole weapon has different point of balance and has to be held closer to the middle of the pole, it might actually have a reach similar to the one of baseball bat (main difference being, one can thrust with a spear to gain 20-30 cm, but only occasionally).


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I... never thought about measuring the reach with how/where to hold the weapon itself. It makes a lot of sense that way... one wouldn't hold a spear or a crowbar from the very bottom. :P

Guess I'll just leave the scale alone, and return the reach of the War Club at 2 and give the baseball bat a a reach of 3, then.

About the spears... what do you think about them having those 2 melee attack modes I mentioned earlier?
One would be from 0 to 3 in reach, but do weak blunt damage by using the pole to hit, quarterstaff combat style?
And the other one being that thrust attack that could have a reach from 2 to 4 and do perhaps, a powerful cutting damage? Well, this damage depending on the spear type, of course.

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If you want to play with the spears I guess they are weapons specific enough to have a potential for a few "special" moves (and seeing your interest with modifying the combat moves, there is a lot of material for fiddling around).

Full idea on "specializing" the pole weapon combat:

- At 4 a powerful "Thrust" move, doing some bonus (compared to current status) damage with better penetration, but only available if enemy is Vulnerable (open for attack, like stabbing a charging opponent).
- At 2-3 normal attack, with no modifiers (standard "hit him whatever way you can" kind of move).
- At 0-1, to make it more realistic and balance better range and damage of Thrust move, only a "Pole Slam" move available (holding the spear sideways and trying to bash the enemy with the pole) that should have a damage no bigger than a Stick. Don't know if its possible but should be replaced with normal attack if target is fallen.

Two possible "special" moves (for all pole weapons in the future):
- "Ward Off" - range 2-3 - prevents enemy from moving closer (useful if player needs a turn to loose a negative status or something)
- "Push Back" - range 0-1 - chance to push the enemy back 1-2 units (possibly opening target for Thrust)


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Hmm... having them as combat moves sounds good and you wouldn't need to lose an attack by switching attack modes... but I think the moves wouldn't use actual weapon stats or degrade with use. Every attack move would need separated version for each one of the spears too.

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Battlemoves, "Melee Attack", "Blind Attack" and "Melee Surge" as well as their ranged counterparts, do degrade weapons on use and are shared between different arms types. Is there no way to make that work with new moves as well? That would also help with other changes later on (things like "Aimed Shot" come to mind)...


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All of them use the condition ID 140 and have a Attack value of 1, which executes the selected attack mode. I don't know if there's a way to make other moves able to degrade the wielded weapon while doing a different attack from the selected attack mode.

Also, that aimed shot can actually be implemented. It would still use the condition ID 140 but have more chances to hit, which is something that is set in the battlemoves code itself instead of the attack mode so it could be done with no problems from this issue, unless you want it to have a greater range or damage or anything else that can only be set in attackmodes.

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So creating new battlemoves that would use new attack conditions, one (Strong Attack) with Attack modifier of 1.2 for Thrust move to use, and one (Weak Attack) with 0.5, for Slam move, should theoretically give us what we want - a variety of 2 additional attacks using the equipped weapon, but modifying it's impact.

Or am I missing something?


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Edit: I kinda missread your post. xD
Yeah, sneaking damage conditions in along with the condition ID 140 should work.

So for instance a Strong Attack should have:
ID 140: Use selected attack mode.
ID 69: Moderate Cuts.

To add a weak attack, though... Maybe making the original attack mode do weak bruising damage only for that weak attack and then add a ID 67 (Weak cuts) to the normal attack.

Weak Attack:
ID 140: Use selected attack mode. (Edited attack mode to do weak bruising damage)

Normal Attack:
ID 140: Use selected attack mode. (Edited attack mode to do weak bruising damage)
ID 67: Weak Cuts.

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This seems really interesting! I might try it when I get home.
Might have to say farewell to my OP character of death and destruction though ;-;
HE WILL BE REBORN!

"How do you play NEO Scavenger?"
"I kill people and steal their shoes."
Welcome to Hobo Simulator 2014

Small patch. It returns the reach of War Clubs to 2 and increases the reach of Bats to 3. Forgot about it yesterday. xD

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What about new uses for tarp? I always just scrap them on sight but I've been googling survival uses for it:

-Tarp Pack: It should offer a bit more room than a plastic bag and it should also degrade slower.
-Tarp Cloak: A hooded cloak. It should use the same slot as the hoodie/hidecoat.
-Tarp Sleeping Bag: It should offer less benefits than their vanilla counterparts.
-Rain Collector: Not even sure how to actually implement it. :P

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Tarp Pack actually seems kinda neat, to be honest. Would love to see the sprite for it lol. Tarp Cloak is pretty cool (sharp edge, small/medium string, a tarp or 2) It should give less benefits though (heat wise). Tarp sleeping bag seems legit. And Rain Collector so....Let's say you fall asleep when it's raining (And I know I'm not the only one who hates getting thirsty as fuck over night in NEOScavenger) and you wanna get some water, I guess that'll be good. Nice ideas though mate, keep up the good work :D

brilliant!

IMAGE(http://steamsignature.com/status/english/76561198001057148.png)IMAGE(http://steamsignature.com/AddFriend.png)

What about this for the Tarp Cloak?

IMAGE(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa145/ChikoEduardo/TarpCloak1a_zps39105c98.png)

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I'd buy that for a dollar!

Need a poncho of some sort too. There's a criminal lack of poncho's in NEO.

I agree. Ponchos would be the best thing ever, Poncho + Ranged + Tracking = Daryl Dixon

Ponchos! I'll try to make one. I usually use ingame graphics so a poncho will be harder to make. :P

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Never upset me man, looks like it'd be something that some crazy mofo would run around in the Post Apoc (Which is what mostly everyone in NEOScavenger looks like XD)

that looks pretty awesome! and it's in my favorite color!

IMAGE(http://steamsignature.com/status/english/76561198001057148.png)IMAGE(http://steamsignature.com/AddFriend.png)

Tell me your secrets O' Dark one.


*Raider sneaks up*
"No, stay the fuck away from my left shoe!"

you could tarps and combine it with ZA's trough/irrigation ideas, for the water collecting system.

I always thought of the idea of using it as a liner for things like the shopping cart so you could store bits without the need for boxes or bags, like metal bits and all the other things that you can't store straight in the trolley.

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