[WIP] Extended NeoScav v3.2 (Archived Comments)

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I am seriously suspecting that this mod is bricking my game somehow. When i play with it, it seems like very few NPC's are roaming the world. I can go for many days without seeing trace of a single NPC. I tried fresh installing the game and right off the bat i was seeing a lot more NPCs.

You are right about that. I failed to notice it coz I haven't played the vanilla game in ages. I think it has something to do with the spawn "weights" for the different NPCs. The Cleaners an entire point in them so reducing that should help. Maybe from 1 to 0.25 should do the trick.

Pew pew pew!

I got a little free time today so I worked on fixing the issues mentioned before. Apart from that, what about some new software for the electronic devices or maybe more uses for them or the electrician skill? For instance:

-Add a GPS app for laptops.
-Add safes with electronic locks, which can only be opened by using the spoofer app.
-A thermometer app for laptops, smartphones and islabs. The code for an item to show precise temperature was added some updates ago but there are no items using it, as far as I can tell.
-A sound/music/video player app that allows laptops, smartphones and islabs to "play" these files. Playing sound/music and holding the device will make you easier to spot but maybe there could be certain sound files that affect certain monsters, like scaring them away, or make them even more aggressive towards you or maybe even produce a condition that makes them fight each other, if more than one monster is attacking you.
-Ability for Laptops to extract files from UVDs via encounter similar to the hacking one. Maybe a song from the Bridgett Lance Concert UVD could be that one maddeness inducing file I mentioned before. :P
-Edit the size of software and inventory space for laptops, cellphones, smartphones and islabs in such a way that they can no longer be used to store great quantities of power.
-Add a craftable device that can store power. It could also be used to actively produce power from sunlight via crafting like some kind of solar panel. It should be more like a campsite emplacement so there should no way to move it, like the tanning racks.

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For that sound thing I think a "Dog whistle" app could perform your intended purpose. Perhaps while holding something with the app installed you could use it in combat and it would have a chance to make feral dogs and dogmen flee. Kinda like the flare but without needing to be really close to use it since dogs already have very sensitive hearing.

EDIT: Also I'm totally with Kaaven. A caffeine addiction sounds right proper. I imagine either coffee or corn-a-cola could satisfy it with the possibility of coffee satisfying the craving for a longer period of time.

(I say as I chase my morning coffee with a soda at lunch >.<)

DOUBLE EDIT: Also looking at that LP Kaaven linked. Watching him try to figure out the bag thing is making me twitch. That guy is indeed failing at neo scavenger.

Hopefully in the next episode he'll put the rags in the crafting window and realize he can make some useful shit by mistake.

Hmm... I think it's also easier to make it just another app instead of a file that needs an player application to play them. The dog whistle should scare feral dogs but I don't know if it should also scare dogmen. I'll think about it.

Another similar idea for an app could be a low range signal jammer similar to the spoofer but it prevents DMC Guards from calling drones. If I add this app, then it should be really rare. Maybe only obtainable via encounter.

And yeah, apart from the alcohol drinker flaw, a coffee drinker one should be in there too. I'll work on those 2 for the update after the upcoming one, though.

I've also watched the vid in the link. Last time I checked, there were 3 episodes uploaded.

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About the new device/software inventory. What about this?

IMAGE(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa145/ChikoEduardo/DeviceSoftware_zps217826aa.png)
All devices will have less inventory space but more room for software. The vanilla laptop can hold a battery plus 3 apps or stackable files. If I make apps and the files be icons instead, then you could fit more in the devices while preventing the weirdness of being able to fit more batteries in devices.

I wont be able to do this with smartphones and islabs, though because of the shape of their batteries. I could make them big enough for them to work like in laptops but that would be as weird.

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Have you considered adding a computer item "smut"? I think that sorta thing is uh...common ;)

On a side note. Need pixel art?
Feel free to let me know. I like to mod games and I recently picked up Neo Scavenger.

My resource thread.
http://bluebottlegames.com/main/node/4129

Lol nah. I wouldn't really know how to write stuff like that. I actually haven't consider adding more data files, just apps, at least for now.

Also, thanks for the offer lad but luckily for me, my pixel art skillz are decent enough for me to make my own. Takes more time than coding stuff sometimes but yeah. :P

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Aww... the thermometer app does not work. It has no way of working with the current coding. It can only work if you are in direct possession of the item giving the temperature, not if the item is inside anything else.

Edit: I could make it work like the lamp app but Idunno... maybe it's too much trouble just to know the current temperature.

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Oh alcoholic would be cool too assuming you added some other types of alcohol into the game. At the moment it's only whiskey and whiskey is super rare, so it wouldn't work well that way. But I'm sure adding beer, wine, vodka, and whatever the hell else would make it fun too.

EDIT: Speaking of pixel art what ever happened to my murderous can opener staff/spear from the old days? That thing was the fucking best.

Yeah, more alcoholic choices are a must if I'm to make a heavy drinker flaw and that will also mean more mixed drink options. I also want to add moonshine, which will be more common than any of the main choices. Also, remember whiskey is always sold in the C-Store so it shouldn't be much of a problem once you start making money.

Also, I remember the can opener. I looked in my files but I could never find it again. :(

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Me again,this time with a off topic part of a comment.Some days ago someone posted a comment about some combat moves,hidden combat moves that you can aparently only achieve by becoming "legendary".I replied to some of the guys in the general forum,expressing my scepticism about those moves,but they told me it is true,and you can get it from the encounter at zom zom's.Now I may be a fool for beliving 1 word of it,but I'm not really sure if it' true nor false,since you snoop in the files all the time(modder and all) I assume you would know if there is such thing as "hidden combat moves"

Your previous comments talks about adding more beverages to the game,refering to alcahool.First,You mentioned moonshine,will you add a craftable moonshine distilerry as some sort of base camp facility(buidable) and make moonshine yourself or only make it scavangable?As for the second thing,maybe you could add some sort of juice not caffaine based like Corn-A-Cola?Maybe just giving you a little sugar rush but not that much that it inflicts"crashing after caffeine high".Some parodied brands of Pepsi,Fanta,Sprite,Mountain Dew,would work,just to have more variaty in drink,maybe some new water bottle's to,it always feels kinda baren in vanilla how I have to feel my pack/cart with the same bottles,like really,were there no competitors on the market at the start of the collapse in Neo?

And my last mention is about guns again,how would you feel activating the ultra high tech gun that's unused in the game files,That'd make some people happy,atleast in my opinion(including me) and would cut you the job to design the much request automatic weapons and focus on something else(DMC locations update or the beverage update).All you would have to do is either make spawn(albeit rarely on guards)or add some some of recipie involving drone parts and both the electrician an the mechanic skill.

Again sorry for the long text and hope you got through all my rant.

The legendary skills are true. The following info is full of spoilers so anyone else reading should have that in mind. There seems to be different ways to get them but the most easy way is to win in the zom zom's arena depending on the skills used to win. I'm not sure if you need to win more than once to get the skills but you won't get a notification or anything. You can only notice you get them when you get the extra combat moves and if you check the skills menu. I actually got the unstoppable skill once. Apart from the extra combat moves, it makes you stronger. If you have strong, melee and tough and you get unstoppable, you are basically a dogman.

A moonshine still/distillery is a good idea. It should indeed be a camp only object just like the tanning racks. The process to make moonshine should take some time too. kinda like tanning, which is very time consuming. Moonshine will also be found on NPCs too.
Not sure about adding different brands of the same drink types, though. I don't really want to add much since the more stuff I add, the slower the crafting screen will be in later games.

And about the gun, maybe. I made a pistol version of it a while ago but idunno. Maybe they could be actual infantry gauss guns since there are only makeshift ones in the game.

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"The process to make moonshine should take some time too. kinda like tanning, which is very time consuming. Moonshine will also be found on NPCs too."

I would disagree

My knowledge of boozcraft is limited, but as far as I know there are 3 main steps
*Making raw material (I don't know how it's called in english, but it's sugar rich food, squashed/grinded and mixed with water&yeast, sometimes yeast is not necessary depending on stuff used)
*Fermenting (longest process, but it's happening on its own)
*Distilling (not as long as some would think)

How I see it implemented
1.Find tin can, glass bottle, non-chemical water droplet and 10*berries (I don't think yeast is necessary when it comes to most berries, bottle and can is used as improvised mortar&pestle)
2.Combine those to get [whatever] (bonus points if it's 2*2 sized and can be stored in tin can)
3.Wait until it "spoils" (2-3 days), when it reaches 0% it turns into "Fermented [whatever]"
4.Take that and combine it with still and campfire (you need to boil it to evaporate alcohol)- it should take 0.5 moves per droplet (it is quite fast)

Notes
*As far as I know many natural poisons can be broken down by extensive chemical and thermal processing (both are present), so even poisonous berries could be used for making alcohol
*By re-distilling 3-4 droplets of moonshine/whiskey we should be able to get 1 droplet of fuel-grade ethanol (for generators and vehicles)
*I think 2 full stacks of berries per droplet is good balance, but then again I may be wrong
*Potatoes and Flour could also be used as ingredients but those definitely should require yeast

I may be wrong on certain specifics though

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Children's backpack full of bullets? I see nothing wrong in that.

Sounds like it will take a lot more time than tanning currently does, then. Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking about doing something like from the game This War of Mine, which is simpler but your suggestions make sense too.

Pew pew pew!

From what I have read/heard, the distilling itself takes several hours - about one hour for one liter of moonshine (from about 10 kg of mush). The mushing process is what actually takes up most of the time. The simple yeast+water+sugar recipe needs about a month to "get good" apparently.

So again, something that would really need a proper base of operation in order to be completed.


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
DeviantArt Gallery of MoD Sprites

that's the thing
1L=1h
1L=10Kg
BUT
One in-game droplet of alcohol is much smaller (0.04L)
0.04L=2min 24sec
0.04L=0.4Kg
(granted you usually make larger quantities so these calculations may not be applicable to real life scenario)

From this I assume that 2 stacks of berries is a bit overkill, how about 0.25Kg water droplet and 5*0.05Kg berries per one mush?
As far as I've heard fermenting of mush isn't THAT long (definitely not one month- maybe it is if you use sugar only?)
My best friend's dad makes apple spirit (60-70%) and fermenting usually takes them a few days in warm place (granted warm place isn't something guaranteed in post-post-apocalyptic Detroit)
At some point there is charcoal filter involved, but I think that is supposed to make taste better
(another idea- basic moonshine would taste like death, so side effects and price should reflect this. But gasmask filters are basically charcoal with some additives, so n*moonshine+gasmask filter=n*quality moonshine. Quality moonshine is fully analogous to whiskey. spent gasmask filters are good for one use only, while good ones lose some % of condition)

I really would prefer term booze rather than moonshine
Moonshine sounds geographically specific, while booze seems more universal, but maybe it's just me and my limited english skills :D

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Children's backpack full of bullets? I see nothing wrong in that.

Won't say how I know it, but it takes hours for 2 liters of hard vodka ;)

That isn't even the process to ferment it. That is just for running through a coffee filter lol

Real alcohol takes months to ferment. A few more months to infuse any fruit flavor to it afterward.

Just an FYI- Philip would not be able to make alcohol "on the fly".

PS- Chico check my resource page for a chuckle ^_-
http://bluebottlegames.com/main/node/4129

Few things
1.What is "hard vodka"? There is hard alcohol (30-50% alcohol) and there is spirit (50-95% alcohol). I've never heard term "hard vodka".
2.Coffee filters? What? You need still to distill mush (can you at least explain this "coffee filter" technique for skeptical minds?)
3.If you're talking about filtering, charcoal filter and certain glues does much better job to remove oils and solids.
4.Months to ferment? Just no. Fastest alcohol recipe I know takes 2h from scratch to booze (granted, it requires modified washing machine and most probably tastes horribly). So I'm pretty sure you can make something decent after fermenting mush for 5-7d.
5.Actually Philip could make alcohol "on the fly".
5a.We are talking about tiny amounts of alcohol (droplet per one portion of fermented mush and 0.5-1 move per droplet).
5b.There are small mobile stills one could carry in small suitcase and assemble/disassemble
http://www.thegreenhead.com/imgs/miniature-distilling-machine-1.jpg
(granted most probably we will be using something closer to this)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNq28DDjlA0
(gameplay wise- sauce pot+some kind of lid+tin can+metal tube+n*small parts+multitool+Mechanic?>>>Still)
(It looks compact enough to fit in children's backpack)

Operating
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZakPUSVVKo
(it shows re-distilling of alcohol, but mush distilling is similar)
(still+campfire+4*water(any)+fermented mush+dirty/clean rags>>>Moonshine)
(rags are used to remove solids from mush)
(If Beer is added to mod, Beer could be used instead of fermented mush as well)

Making of mush/basic beer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_N3PbopL28
yes it takes ~1 week
(water(non-chemical)+5*berries(any)+tin can+glass bottle+campfire?>>>mush)
(most unwashed fruits/berries have wild yeast on them. campfire could be used to warm water a bit)
(4*berries could be replaced by potatoes and flour. We need at least one as source of wild yeast)
Loses 0.6% per turn (should reach 0% and turn into fermented mush in ~167turns/~7days)
Could be considered as crude berry wine.

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Children's backpack full of bullets? I see nothing wrong in that.

Pity. If the can opener was in this game I would literally never use anything else. It is by far the sexiest weapon your beard has ever created.

All this talk is making me want to play NEO so bad. I think I'll do another binge rush to test it since I do all the random shit that ends up revealing the shenanigans of the tarp ninjas <.<

EDIT: Upon further looking into it I think the strength nerf is prettymuch fine. Though I would say that given the nerf the cost too buy it at character creation is way too high. Would you perhaps consider lowering the point cost? Six points is far to expensive given its current effectiveness.

Hmmm... I'll have to think about it. I mean, the nerf was made mainly to weaken most NPCs since most use it and also to remove the one hit insta kills/cripple, which was too much, IMO.

Apart from that, ppl with the strong skill get the "Throw Down" move when grappling, which is not a bad move. I once used it on a melonhead and broke both his arms with it. :P

Pew pew pew!

Fair enough. I was thinking of the time I caved a dogman's chest in with a single punch as the main reason the nerf is fine for the most part. It's just that now six points seems unwarranted. As for grappling that is handy, but usually only when my opponent is armed and I'm not. Though I did once throw a guy down, go into my inventory, pick up his rifle, then I rushed him as he stood up and cracked his skull good.

New update, lads! Version 3.2 includes:

-GPS app is now available for laptops too.
-Added thermometer apps for laptops, smartphones and islabs. Once activated, the temperature will be displayed when hovering the cursor over the weather icon next to the "End Turn" button.
-Added safes with electronic locks, which can only be opened by using the spoofer app. They contain the same loot choices as the normal ones and are a bit more uncommon.
-Edited the size of software and inventory space for laptops, cellphones, smartphones and islabs in such a way that they can no longer be used to store great quantities of power.
-Edited the Smoker flaw so the player craves for more cigarettes a day, usually from 3 to 4 cigarettes. The penalties are also slightly different, as suggested by Linibot.
-Reduced the "spawn weight" of Cleaners to half. The old setting was causing an absence of other NPCs.

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Stuck at loading screen when i updated. Gonna check if it's the same on my desktop just to be sure.

Are you by any chance using other mods?

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Found the culprit. False alarm sorry bout that :P

Hello I've Just Want If My Idea Is Good So.. I'll Make Sprite If I Have Time To Make I Wish It Well Help :P
-Items-
*Claw Hammer
-Use To Crafting On Items
*Fishing Rod
-It Is Use To Fish On River/Marsh And Any Kinds Of Water Areas
*Fish Bait
-Fish Bait For Fishing Rod
*Fish
-A Dead Fish If You Are Fishing On Water Areas It Can Be Cooked
*Cooked Fish
-It's Cooked Fish It's Same Condition On Cooked Small Meat
*Wooden Cart
-It Can Be Store Many Items. To Craft The Wooden Cart Is 14x Wooden Planks+4x Wooden Wheels+Claw Hammer+Claw Hammer/Tool Kit+20x Nails And You Can Also Repair With 1x Wooden Plank+10x Nails+A Claw Hammer/Tool Kit
*Wooden Planks
-To Craft Wooden Planks Is 1x Wooden Log+HandSaw+Sharp Edge You'll Get 10x Wooden Planks
*HandSaw
-You Can Loot This Item
*Wooden Log
-To Craft Wooden Log Is Forest+Axe You'll Get 5x Wooden Logs
*Wooden Wheel
-To Craft Wooden Wheel Is 1x Wooden Log+Axe+Sharp Edge
*MakeShift FlintLock Rifle
-It's The Same Of Hunting Rifle Range. To Craft Is 1x Long Iron Pipe+1x Flint+1x Wooden Plank+Sharp Edge+1x Scrap Metal+Tool Kit
*Garbage Bag
-It Can Be Stored Many Items It Can't Be Put On Bag Slot It Can Be Carry On Hand
*Stone Blocks
-To Craft Stone Blocks 1x Stone+Mason And Chisel Kit
*Mason And Chisel Kit
It Can Be Loot On Looting Areas
*Axe
-It Can Be Loot On Looting Areas. It Can Be Repaired If The Handle Of Axe Is Broken. The Part Of Axe It Well Fell If The Axe Is Broken To Craft Borken Axe Is Axe Part+Meduim Branch+Claw Hammer/Tool Kit
*PickAxe
-It Can Be Loot On Looting Areas. It Can Be Repaired If The Handle Of PickAxe Is Broken. The Part OF PickAxe It Wel Fell If The PickAxe Is Broken To Craft Broken PickAxe Is PickAxe Part+Meduim Branch+Claw Hammer/Tool Kit
*Bone Club
-To Craft Bone Club Is Bone+2x Rags
*GunPowder
-To Craft GunPowder Is Sulfur+CharCoal
*Sulfur It Can Be Mine On Mining Shaft
*Charcoal
-To Craft Charcoal Is 1x Wooden Log+Meduim Heat Source
*Leather BackPack
-To Craft Leather BackPack Is 10x Leather Patch+6x Meduim Thread+ Tool Kit
*Leather Swing Bed
-To Craft Leather Swing Bed Is 13x Leather Patch+20 Meduim Thread+ Tool Kit
>So.. I'll Stop Here There Well Be MOre Ideas But I Have To Stop Here First Because I Have To Think More And Also Make Sprites I'll Be Back Soon :3

Idea Giver :3
I Like Survival Games :D

Thanks for the suggestions, Near410.

Some of them are already in other mods, though and I usually don't work on stuff already implemented. Others would only have a very limited use in the game or be redundant and I'm trying to avoid stuff like that since my mod already lags a lot in the crafting window, specially in late games.

The suggestion I like is the leather backpack. Ppl from steam have also been suggesting I should add a craftable hide/rawhide/leather backpack a lot so I might add it one of these days.

Pew pew pew!

Wow! Tnx For Choosing On My Ideas.. :D
>Skills<
*Scavenging Skills
-High Loot But Low Sneaky
*Martial Art
-This Skill Can Kick High And He Can Hit The Enemy Perfectly
*Treasurer Finder
-He Has Meduim Looting And He Has High Safe And Also He Has Small Sneaky
>Traits<
*Loss Tooth
-He Can Drink Properly But On Eating Is Hard You Can Also Install Your Mouth A Teeth Braces
*Hear Less
-This Trait Makes You Hear Less On Hexes

I Hope You'll Choose My Ideas If You Don't Like It.
It's Ok For Me :3

Idea Giver :3
I Like Survival Games :D

"*MakeShift FlintLock Rifle
-It's The Same Of Hunting Rifle Range. To Craft Is 1x Long Iron Pipe+1x Flint+1x Wooden Plank+Sharp Edge+1x Scrap Metal+Tool
*GunPowder
-To Craft GunPowder Is Sulfur+CharCoal
*Sulfur It Can Be Mine On Mining Shaft"

I'm sorry, but things are more complicated than that
1. I don't see any real purpose of flintlock rifle. Even with Ranged skill that one shot most probably will miss (and it's only one shot, since properly implemented muzzleloader rifle would be required to be crafted with black powder, paper and projectile to reload). You'd be better off with sling or bow. And I would rather prefer if Chiko would work on something that isn't useless.
2.Proper black powder=75%charcoal+15%saltpeter+10%Sulfur
3.Safely crafting black powder isn't simple. You need a lot of infrastructure- stone or lead ball mill to finely grind all components (and no, mortar&pestle won't do since you need to mill it for at least an hour to achieve necessary condition), then you need to dry it in some safe&warm spot (because it is wet milling), then you need to granulate powder (to prevent it from soaking up air moisture). Trust me, even for skilled chemist making black powder from scratch is a mess, let alone for someone who isn't skilled in chemistry.
4.And since muzzleloader flintlock rifle seems useless what is the possible use for black powder? Bullets? Possible, but those would require new ammo types, since black powder bullets would be really bad for pistol and military shotgun (if we assume that one is semi-automatic), rifle, revolver and basic shotgun would handle such ammo a bit better. Problem is the amount of residue such powder leaves on mechanism and barrel.
4.Best option would be to break apart bullets into components (projectile+case+primer+propellant) and use those for different ammunition types. But that would require skill and tools
for more info check this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsLH-BMUqo0
(why this one? Because it involves tools one can carry around)
But then again there already is a mod that involves ammo breakdown and crafting.
My bad, there isn't, hmm, let me make another post about ammunition...

As for skills
"*Martial Art
-This Skill Can Kick High And He Can Hit The Enemy Perfectly
>Traits<
*Hear Less
-This Trait Makes You Hear Less On Hexes"
1.Melee already represents martial skills.
2.High kicks are useless really, low kicks are more practical and safer.
3."Hit The Enemy Perfectly"? I'm sorry, but it isn't how real life fights happen. Especially when melee weapons are involved.
4.How exactly Hear Less is different from Heavy sleeper when it comes to game mechanics?

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Children's backpack full of bullets? I see nothing wrong in that.

Hey, I've just recently gotten into NeoScavenger and I'm having a lot of fun playing with your mod installed. I'm someone who always wants just as much variety in terms of options and items and things as is humanly possible, so mods like this are really great =D

Similarly, I'm sure you get tons of suggestions for things people would like to see and already have your own ideas as to what to do with your mod, so of course feel free to totally ignore me, but something I'd really like to see added to the game somehow is more high tech weapons and armor that could be extremely, extremely difficult to get but would still make sense for the DMC or other sort of advanced loot locations to have. For example, I know there are files for a laser rifle but that it's not actually possible to get it in game. I know there's also the homemade gauss rifle, but I think there's room lore-wise for a wider variety of more high tech weaponry than the sort of basic apocalypse fare of shotguns and hunting rifles and the few other options that are currently available.

Anyway, that's obviously just what I'd like to see, but I thought I might as well go ahead and say something. Thanks a lot for all the work you've done already with this mod =D

Thanks! Also, you are not the only one. Someone else suggested I should add that high tech rifle some posts ago. I've been working on DMC assassins for a while now and maybe they could use those rifles. The assassins also use an armored hooded longcoat which is slightly weaker than the DMC Armor Vests. Assassin gear is actually in the mod's files but I haven't been able to find a way to make them work just yet so the only way to get the gear is to mess with the files a bit. :P

Pew pew pew!

How do I merge this with the cheater mod?

Fluffy tails are awesome

It's a bit more complicated than just merging them. You would need to download both mods, edit their files and make some modifications to a number of things to avoid one mod from overwriting stuff in another or to add the new stuff to the item spawner, etc.

It would be like making a mod to be able to run both mods.

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So you won't do it? Lots of people like both mods and would like to use em both

Fluffy tails are awesome

I think there's already a merge mod for these 2 mods somewhere but I could be wrong. Either way, I don't have as much free time these days and merging mods takes a lot of time.

Pew pew pew!

Can't find it -w-

There's a merge for cheater and the other most popular mod, the mmod, but not your mod

Fluffy tails are awesome

Since we have handmade machetes, I would like to suggest power machetes. Not much for increasing damage, but to give armor penetration. Require electrician and maybe mechanic, and use a regular machete, tool kit and some parts to craft. Also maybe strong fasteners to make it more durable. Then slap in some batteries and slash away at DMC guards.

I also thought it would be amusing to have a bullet tipped spear with a mechanism to fire the bullet on contact.

Cheers

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Gariba's Extras and Miscellaneous:
http://bluebottlegames.com/main/node/4190

Sounds like Dead Rising.

@Illusion

Maybe you should try playing without cheats. Or just MMod + cheater; MMod is really really good. I love the new questlines, personally. I just wish it had Chiko's mod's Bicycle.


As mind to body,
so soul to spirit.
as death to the mortal,
so failure to the immortal.

-Such is the price of all ambition.

How about proper bullet reloading?
(WARNING: a LOT of text. You have been warned)

First, basics.

Spoiler: Highlight to view
What is ammo made of?
-Projectile+case/shell+primer+propellant(gunpowder)+wad(in case of buckshot/breaching shells)
What is primer?
-Highly sensitive explosive. In reality you can easily detonate it by hitting it. I think that it would be safe to omit this in game.
What is propellant?
-Traditionally it was black powder, but it leaves a lot of smoke and residue, so it isn't the best choice for bullets.
-Modern ammunition uses smokeless propellant (nitrocellulose and similar). Manufacturing it on a go is not an option. No, really, even factories had plenty of accidents.
What is case?
-Metal tube with small hole at one end (for primer) and large hole at another (for projectile). Usually made from brass, but occasionally can be made from other materials (like steel). In most cases can be reused.
What is shell?
-Similar to case, but is usually made from plastic tube and metal base. Metal base is usually made from brass. In most cases can be reused.
What is wad?
-A thick circle that goes between buckshot/breach slug and powder to ensure that pushes load out of shell when fired. Since it can be made out of thick cardboard in theory nothing stops Philip to craft plenty of those from cardboard boxes.
What is projectile?
-The part that flies towards target.
What projectile is made of?
-Depends on projectile type.
--JHP is (usually) made from lead. Can be partially jacketed by (usually) brass, but for simplicity sake let's assume it is basic JHP and is made from lead only.
--FMJ is (usually) lead core jacketed in (usually) brass.
--AP is (usually) steel needle wrapped by lead. Can be jacketed in brass, but for simplicity sake let's assume it is basic AP and is made from lead and steel only.
--Buckshot are many small projectiles that spread. Usually made from brass-coated lead. But brass is there only due to laws (lead is toxic after all). I don't think someone would put a fine on Philip for shooting pure lead buckshot shells though.
--Slug is simply larger FMJ projectile.
--Breaching slugs are usually made from metal powder and wax (don't know what metal, but let's assume it's steel)
So we basically have only 3 metals to worry about?
-Yes, lead, brass and steel. Lead and brass can be smelted with basic tools.
If you have all components can you simply put cartridge together?
-No. You need certain tools for that. Usually people have dedicated reloading benches for that, but luckily for us there are handheld tools that are small enough to carry around.

Videos on reloading
Bullets&Hand press
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsLH-BMUqo0
Shells
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uJfG81hQDA

How it could work in game?

Spoiler: Highlight to view
0.Find Ammo Hand press and 3 dies for specific ammo you need (yes, 3 dies for .38, 3 dies for .45, etc.)
0a.In theory there could be some sort of size-adjustable dies, but they usually aren't.

1.After shooting there should be "Spent [caliber] case"/"Spent shell" left on your hex, gather them.

2.Ranged+Ammo Hand press+[caliber] Die A+Spent [caliber] case= [caliber] case
2a.Die A removes spent primer and straightens case
2b.Spent primers are useless (as far as I know), so we can safely assume that Philip throws them away

3.Get new primers (scavenge or barter).
3a.I think best implementation would be Pistol primer (for .38 and .45) and Rifle primer (for .308 and shells).
3b.Anyone can explain why primers aren't universal? I never understood it.

4.Ranged+Ammo Hand press+[caliber] Die B+[caliber] case+Primer=Primed [caliber] case
4a.Die B primes cases/shells

5.Get gunpowder (proper term is propellant, but gunpowder is simpler to understand), certain type of projectile (scavenge/barter/craft)
5a.For buckshot and breaching shells Wad is also necessary (scavenge/barter/craft)
5*.All projectile types should be possible to craft (see further notes)

6.Ranged+Ammo Hand press+[caliber] Die C+Primed [caliber] case+Projectile+Gunpowder= Bullet
6a.Die C seats and presses projectile into case.
6b.For shells it seals shell (Wad is also necessary)
6c.Usually one would need some way to precisely measure gunpowder, but since game would measure gunpowder in portions for us, I don't think it's really necessary gameplay-wise.

X.Ranged+Multitool+Bullet=Primed [caliber] casing+components of projectile+n*powder
Xa.Philip simply brute forces projectile out of case (ripping projectile in process)
Xb.In case of shells projectile remains intact (but Wad gets lost)

I think such reloading is realistic yet simple enough to be fun (at least fun for most people that find Neoscavenger fun)

Projectiles and crafting.
Projectiles could be bought or found, but nothing stops skilled person to smelt own projectiles (at least theoretically)

First, materials
Lead scraps- can be made from any projectile+multitool
Brass scraps- can be made by multitool from FMJ projectiles and cases&shells (shells give less brass, since most is plastic)
Steel bits- can be made by multitool from anything steel really (for example Small Parts)
All projectiles can be reversed by multitool (JHP for lead, FMJ for lead&brass, AP for lead%steel)

Smelting- we need projectile casts for smelting being really possible (for every caliber and slugs)
Lead melts easily, brass not so, steel... don't even bother

How? (theory)

Spoiler: Highlight to view
HJP- just lead, melt it and pour into cast. When it cools off, remove tip by multitool. Done
AP- simple enough. melt lead, pour into cast and while it's still soft/liquid insert sharpened steel bit into center. When it cools off clip excess steel from base. Done
FMJ/slug- that's a tricky one. My assumption of possible crafting. Flatten brass by pliers into thin circle. Heat it until it's soft enough to be workable and force it into cast (for it to cover most of the walls). Then melt lead and pour into cast. When cooled it should be brass-jacketed enough to function as FMJ. Done... poorly.
Breach slug- just melt wax (or something compatible) and mix it with steel bits, then pour into slug cast. Done.
Buckshot- no melting needed, while not perfect, irregular lead bits would work just fine.

How much material? (basic idea- maybe unbalanced)
.38 projectile- JHP=2lead, FMJ=1lead+1brass, AP=1lead+1steel
.45 projectile- JHP=3lead, FMJ=2lead+1brass, AP=2lead+1steel
.308 projectile- JHP=5lead, FMJ=4lead+1brass, AP=4lead+1steel
12 gauge- buckshot=7lead scraps, slug=5lead+2brass, breach=4 steel bits+wax (or something similar)

How much powder per/from bullet?
.38=1unit, .45=2units, 12g=3units, .308=5units
(again I may be wrong on exact measurement)

Breaking cases (with multitool)
.38 case=4brass
.45 case=6brass
.308 case=10brass
12g shell=3brass(+plastic?)

SUMMARY

New items

Spoiler: Highlight to view
Lead scraps
Brass scraps
Steel bits
Spent Shell
Shell
Primed Shell
Spent .38 case
.38 case
Primed .38 Case
Spent .45 case
.45 case
Primed .45 Case
Spent .308 case
.308 case
Primed .308 Case
Pistol Primer
Rifle Primer
Primer box (?)
Gunpowder
Gunpowder can (?)
Slug
Breach Slug
Wax (+Honey?)
(Candle?)
JHP .38 Projectile
FMJ .38 Projectile
AP .38 Projectile
JHP .45 Projectile
FMJ .458 Projectile
AP .45 Projectile
JHP .308 Projectile
FMJ .308 Projectile
AP .308 Projectile
Ammo Hand Loader
12g Die A
12g Die B
12g Die C
.38 Die A
.38 Die B
.38 Die C
.45 Die A
.45 Die B
.45 Die C
.308 Die A
.308 Die B
.308 Die C
12g Cast
.38 Cast
.45 Cast
.308 Cast

New crafting recipes

Spoiler: Highlight to view
Projectile smelting
Ranged+Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+12g Cast+5*Lead scraps+2*Brass Scraps>>>Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+12g Cast+Slug (1 move)
Ranged+Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+12g Cast+4*Steel bits+Wax>>>Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+12g Cast+Breach Slug (0.5 move)
Ranged+Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+.38 Cast+2*Lead scraps>>>Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+.38 Cast+.38 JHP Projectile (0.5 move)
Ranged+Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+.38 Cast+Lead scraps+Brass scraps>>>Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+.38 Cast+.38 FMJ Projectile (1 move)
Ranged+Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+.38 Cast+Lead scraps+Steel bits>>>Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+.38 Cast+.38 AP Projectile (0.5 move)
Ranged+Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+.45 Cast+3*Lead scraps>>>Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+.45 Cast+.45 JHP Projectile (0.5 move)
Ranged+Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+.45 Cast+2*Lead scraps+Brass scraps>>>Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+.45 Cast+.45 FMJ Projectile (1 move)
Ranged+Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+.45 Cast+2*Lead scraps+Steel bits>>>Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+.45 Cast+.45 AP Projectile (0.5 move)
Ranged+Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+.308 Cast+5*Lead scraps>>>Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+.308 Cast+.308 JHP Projectile (0.5 move)
Ranged+Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+.308 Cast+4*Lead scraps+Brass scraps>>>Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+.308 Cast+.308 FMJ Projectile (1 move)
Ranged+Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+.308 Cast+4*Lead scraps+Steel bits>>>Fire+Pot/Can+Multitool+.308 Cast+.308 AP Projectile (0.5 move)
(Multitool usage 0.1-0.2%, Cast usage 0.5-1%)

Breakdown to raw materials
Ranged+Multitool+Slug>>>Ranged+Multitool+5*Lead scraps+2*Brass Scraps (0.2 Move)
Ranged+Multitool+Breach Slug>>>Ranged+Multitool+4*Steel bits+Wax (1 Move)
Ranged+Multitool+.38 JHP Projectile>>>Ranged+Multitool+2*Lead scraps (0.1 Move)
Ranged+Multitool+.38 FMJ Projectile>>>Ranged+Multitool+Lead scraps+Brass scraps (0.2 Move)
Ranged+Multitool+.38 AP Projectile>>>Ranged+Multitool+Lead scraps+Steel bits (0.2 Move)
Ranged+Multitool+.45 JHP Projectile>>>Ranged+Multitool+3*Lead scraps (0.1 Move)
Ranged+Multitool+.45 FMJ Projectile>>>Ranged+Multitool+2*Lead scraps+Brass scraps (0.2 Move)
Ranged+Multitool+.45 AP Projectile>>>Ranged+Multitool+2*Lead scraps+Steel bits (0.2 Move)
Ranged+Multitool+.308 JHP Projectile>>>Ranged+Multitool+5*Lead scraps (0.1 Move)
Ranged+Multitool+.308 FMJ Projectile>>>Ranged+Multitool+4*Lead scraps+Brass scraps (0.2 Move)
Ranged+Multitool+.308 AP Projectile>>>Ranged+Multitool+4*Lead scraps+Steel bits (0.2 Move)
Ranged+Multitool+12g shell>>>Ranged+Multitool+3*Brass bits(+Plastic?) (0.1 move)
Ranged+Multitool+.38 Case (any)>>>Ranged+Multitool+4*Brass bits (0.2 Move)
Ranged+Multitool+.45 Case (any)>>>Ranged+Multitool+6*Brass bits (0.2 Move)
Ranged+Multitool+.308 Case (any)>>>Ranged+Multitool+10*Brass bits (0.2 Move)
Ranged+Multitool+12g Slug shell>>>Ranged+Multitool+Primed 12g shell+Slug+3*Gunpowder (0.2 Move)
Ranged+Multitool+12g Buckshot shell>>>Ranged+Multitool+Primed 12g shell+7*Lead scraps+3*Gunpowder (0.2 Move)
Ranged+Multitool+12g Breach shell>>>Ranged+Multitool+Primed 12g shell+Breach Slug+3*Gunpowder (0.2 Move)
(yes, wads get lost)
Ranged+Multitool+.38 JHP Bullet>>>Ranged+Multitool+Primed .38 case+2*Lead scraps+Gunpowder (0.5 move)
Ranged+Multitool+.38 FMJ Bullet>>>Ranged+Multitool+Primed .38 case+Lead scraps+Brass scraps+Gunpowder (0.5 move)
Ranged+Multitool+.38 AP Bullet>>>Ranged+Multitool+Primed .38 case+Lead scraps+Steel bits+Gunpowder (0.5 move)
Ranged+Multitool+.45 JHP Bullet>>>Ranged+Multitool+Primed .45 case+3*Lead scraps+2*Gunpowder (0.5 move)
Ranged+Multitool+.45 FMJ Bullet>>>Ranged+Multitool+Primed .45 case+2*Lead scraps+Brass scraps+2*Gunpowder (0.5 move)
Ranged+Multitool+.45 AP Bullet>>>Ranged+Multitool+Primed .45 case+2*Lead scraps+Steel bits+2*Gunpowder (0.5 move)
Ranged+Multitool+.308 JHP Bullet>>>Ranged+Multitool+Primed .308 case+5*Lead scraps+5*Gunpowder (0.5 move)
Ranged+Multitool+.308 FMJ Bullet>>>Ranged+Multitool+Primed .308 case+4*Lead scraps+Brass scraps+5*Gunpowder (0.5 move)
Ranged+Multitool+.308 FMJ Bullet>>>Ranged+Multitool+Primed .308 case+4*Lead scraps+Steel bits+5*Gunpowder (0.5 move)
Ranged+Multitool+Small parts>>>Ranged+Multitool+n*Steel bits (0.3 move)
Ranged+Multitool+Cardboard box+Wax+Lighter>>>Ranged+Multitool+Lighter+n*Wad (1 move)
(wax is used as a binder for several layers of cardboard, lighter is used to heat it up)
(Multitool usage 0.2-0.5%, Lighter usage 1%)

Case preparation
Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+12g Die A+Spent 12g shell>>>Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+12g Die A+12g shell
Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.38 Die A+Spent .38 case>>>Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.38 Die A+.38 case
Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.45 Die A+Spent .45 case>>>Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.45 Die A+.45 case
Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.308 Die A+Spent .308 case>>>Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.308 Die A+.308 case
Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+12g Die B+12g shell+Rifle primer>>>Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+12g Die B+Primed 12g shell
Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.38 Die B+.38 case+Pistol primer>>>Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.38 Die B+Primed .38 case
Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.45 Die B+.45 case+Pistol primer>>>Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.45 Die B+Primed .45 case
Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.308 Die B+.308 case+Rifle primer>>>Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.308 Die B+Primed .308 case
(Die usage 0.1%, Hand press usage 0.01%, 0.1 Move per action)

Ammo crafting
Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+12g Die C+Primed 12g shell+3*Gunpowder+Slug>>>Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+12g Die C+12g Slug shell
Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+12g Die C+Primed 12g shell+3*Gunpowder+Wad+7*Lead scraps>>>Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+12g Die C+12g Buckshot shell
Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+12g Die C+Primed 12g shell+3*Gunpowder+Wad+Breach slug>>>Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+12g Die C+12g Breach shell
Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.38 Die C+Primed .38 case+Gunpowder+.38 JHP projectile>>>Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.38 Die C+.38 JHP bullet
Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.38 Die C+Primed .38 case+Gunpowder+.38 FMJ projectile>>>Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.38 Die C+.38 FMJ bullet
Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.38 Die C+Primed .38 case+Gunpowder+.38 AP projectile>>>Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.38 Die C+.38 AP bullet
Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.45 Die C+Primed .45 case+2*Gunpowder+.45 JHP projectile>>>Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.45 Die C+.45 JHP bullet
Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.45 Die C+Primed .45 case+2*Gunpowder+.45 FMJ projectile>>>Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.45 Die C+.45 FMJ bullet
Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.45 Die C+Primed .45 case+2*Gunpowder+.45 AP projectile>>>Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.45 Die C+.45 AP bullet
Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.308 Die C+Primed .308 case+5*Gunpowder+.308 JHP projectile>>>Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.308 Die C+.308 JHP bullet
Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.308 Die C+Primed .308 case+5*Gunpowder+.308 FMJ projectile>>>Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.308 Die C+.308 FMJ bullet
Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.308 Die C+Primed .308 case+5*Gunpowder+.308 AP projectile>>>Ranged+Ammo Hand Loader+.308 Die C+.308 AP bullet
(Die usage 0.1%, Hand press usage 0.01%, 0.1 Move per action)

Notes
1.This may be too complicated, but dammit, this is the simplest proper way to implement ammo reloading
2.It was fun to write :D
3.Still don't know why primers are different :/
4.Since my reloading knowledge is purely theoretical feel free to correct me :)
5.Sorry for text wall, I tried to organize it as best as I could.

============================================
Children's backpack full of bullets? I see nothing wrong in that.

Trading always bugged me in this game.
Currently it is equivalent exchange not barter

Is it possible to tweak market so if you buy you pay 150% of item value?
Merchants need to make living too.

That could allow to add "Charismatic" skill/ability
With it you would pay only 125% of item value.
Could be used for certain encounters too to speak your way out of problems, get higher reward or more information
During combat encounters with humans "Offer to Talk", "Demand Surrender" and "Offer Ceasefire" moves have higher chance of success.

And some sort of opposite trait (Asocial?)
Pay 200% of item value
"Offer to Talk", "Demand Surrender" and "Offer Ceasefire" moves have lower chance of success

Also- would be nice if items in Junk Market and ATN would slightly change each turn (not once per midnight)
Basically, every turn there is a chance that 0-5 items disappear and 0-3 new items appear
To simulate live market (other people buying random items, merchants buying random items from other people and offering them to sale)

One more thing- is it possible to add arrows (like in crafting menu) to make sure items won't overfill Market?

============================================
Children's backpack full of bullets? I see nothing wrong in that.

Well Making Sprites Is Hard To Make Is There A Sprite Making Or Something To Draw
I Was Trying To Draw A Musket Out Of Pipe And Others

Idea Giver :3
I Like Survival Games :D

Here's a little idea.

When you picture a hiker, traversing the wilderness, big rucksack, what do they have in their hand? A walking stick.

So a simple little thing, having a large branch or a spear in your hand gives you the condition "Walking With A Stick", which gives you a little bonus to your move speed. Useful in the early game to overcome barefoot, but probably not a huge game-breaker.

Thats Pretty Nice
I Was Thinking To Put Bandages or Splint(NOt A Wooden Splint)
If Theres A Problem Just Reply

Idea Giver :3
I Like Survival Games :D

How about adding a hygiene bar? Low hygiene would increase chance of infections from wounds, getting sick, and maybe a decrease in action points and sleeping difficulty from parasites. Causing at opponent to bleed using a melee weapon would decrease the bar, but washing in water sources would increase the bar, but make you wet.

Being wet would make you cold and increase chance of sickness, but by taking off clothes and sitting near a fire, the debuff will disappear quicker. You could also add this effect when it rains,this would make the tarp, hide and foil coats much more useful as they will stop you from getting wet while its raining.

Well Thats Good Idea
How About New Plot Called "Dead Corpse" And Also Another Plot Called "Merchant's HOuse" You Can Buy There On Any Kinds Of Items..
I Hope IT Well Help :3

Idea Giver :3
I Like Survival Games :D

Want to give some info if someone else is having the same problem with rotten food conditions sticking around forever and not going away. Chiko may have fixed it in the newest update with the thermometer but I haven't updated and so decided to see if it was fixable.

All the rotten food items added by this mod under the "conditions" tables have the wrong value for "bPermanent" set to 0 instead of 1. Setting all those item's bPermanent values to 1 will instantly cure your saved character on load and prevent it from happening again.

I have had tons of fun playing this mod and learned how to mod with it as a resource. Thanks for this awesome mod Chiko! keep it up please.

Mkay so I kinda got a bit of free time to spare so I'll work on the distilling thing. I've been reading the discussion about that, and I have thought of some ways to implement it without it being too realistic or too simplistic.

I will have to add new items for this to be possible. Pressure Cooker, Cooper Tubing, Sugar and Yeast.
IMAGE(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa145/ChikoEduardo/NewStuffDistilling3_zps77f7d6e6.png)

-The Pressure Cooker will work as the usual water/fire proof cooking implement but unlike the Sauce Pan, it won't be usable in combat but will have room to store a liquid or a "jelly" type liquid like tallow or stew. It wont degrade either.
-The Cooper Tubing will only be usable to make a Still but it will have a decent trading price so cooper will also be a barter item.
-Sugar will also be a barter item and it will probably be stackable. It will only be used to make Booze for now.
-Yeast wont stack but one will be enough for a batch. Yeast will also be usable to make bread as a replacement for tallow.

So, the first step would be to make the Mash. For that the player would need:
-Medium Heat Source
-Pressure Cooker
-4x Water
-A medium/large shaft to grind/stir the stuff.
-A number of Berries (10x?) and Sugar (4x?) OR Potatoes (5?) and Sugar (6x?) OR just Sugar (15x?)
-1x Yeast

It should take an action point or maybe two to make. It will result in a Pressure Cooker containing the mixture, ready to ferment. In this state, the Pressure Cooker cannot be used in crafting recipes or to store liquids until its condition reaches 0, which should take a week or a bit more. When it's done, it will degrade and spawn a Pressure Cooker with the fermented mixture.

The next step with require a Still. It will be a campsite only object. The only way to move it will be to disassemble it.
IMAGE(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa145/ChikoEduardo/MakeshiftStill_zpsb296bca1.png)
To make a Still you should need:
-A Pressure Cooker
-A Sauce Pan
-A Glass Bottle
-A Cooper Tubing
-6x Medium Shafts
-4x Medium String or Strong Fastener

Now that the Still is crafted, the last step should be possible:
-Medium Heat Source
-A Still
-The Presure Cooker containing the Sour Mash
-A shirt or similar piece of clothing (To strain the mash through as it's dumped into the still)
-2x Water for the condenser (Glass bottle with the cooper coil around it)

This should spawn a number of Homebrew Booze droplets (12x?). I'm not sure if this kind of alcohol is strong enough to be used as disinfectant but maybe there should be the option to further refine alcohols like this or whiskey into "pure alcohol" droplets, which could weight less and be stacked up to 20x, effectively increasing the number of uses. Pure alcohol should only work to clean wounds or in crafting and drinking it should cause some negative effects, maybe. I remember someone suggested this and I also saw it in the game "This War of Mine" and I do like the idea.

Edit: I just noticed there's no skill attached to this... the closest one I can picture would be the Botany Skill, IMO.

Pew pew pew!

Awesome!
Glad this will be added to mod
Few notes
1.It's copper not cooper (first is reddish metal, second is a person that makes wooden barrels and buckets)
2.Alcohol content varies, but single distillation at least give out strong alcohol (30-50%). With proper tools (gas stove and thermometer) one could even keep heat of mush at ~85C and get spirit out of it (Obviously this is impossible in conditions of the game)
3.How about adding weak alcohols (beer or wine). One drink could actually have mostly positive effects (relieving minor pain, boosting stamina, etc.), but increase dehydration speed for a few turns. Also if Alcoholic trait is introduced it should relieve negative effects of that.
4.Re-distilling should totally be an option (weak alcohols into strong alcohol, strong alcohol into spirit)
5.I would argue that Medic should be the skill for brewing. It is closest thing we have to chemist

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Children's backpack full of bullets? I see nothing wrong in that.

Topic locked