[WIP] Extended NeoScav v3.2 (Archived Comments)

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How about Plaststeel cart?
can hold small items and deteriorate slower than usual cart (by being reinforced by plastic)
Plastic sled+Fire+Pot=Plastic lump (or several)
Shopping cart+Fire+Pot+n*Plastic lump+2*Cardboard box+Mechanic=Plaststeel cart
Shopping cart basket+Fire+Pot+n*Plastic lump+2*Cardboard box+Mechanic=Plaststeel cart basket
(can be used in place of ordinary basket to assemble cart)

1.Cardboard is being used to mold and hold molten plastic until it solidifies (it isn't used in cart itself, but boxes will be torn)
2.I'm not sure how many Plastic lumps should this require
3.Plastic lumps could be used for something else too
4.Take that grimdark future! We don't need you to have our very own plaststeel. Desperate and hungry future is good enough substitute.

Children's backpack full of bullets? I see nothing wrong in that.

what do you mean by plasteel? Plasteel is a different thing in a lot of works, usually not an actual plastic but a very strong material which is easy to mold and used mostly for armor making.

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Sorry, just a little joke.
This "plassteel" is just plastic with metal inside, like reinforced concrete, but with plastic instead.
(like I explained you coat shopping cart basket with plastic from both sides)

Children's backpack full of bullets? I see nothing wrong in that.

Hey Chiko, how does adding an advance shop sound? Currently money can't be used for much after the eye surgery, since the junk store doesn't sell much useful stuff. It could sell some high end gear and guns, maybe an assault rifle? Would love to go full auto with an AK. Although it maybe a bit unbalanced, maybe add a mercenary faction equipped with good gear and killer robots? Thanks for the great mod!

Well, money is really easy to get so it will indeed be unbalanced. I'll think of something but end gear shouldn't just be available for purchase, IMO.

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Yeah fair enough, if there is an advanced shop the prices would have to be crazy high, its just that currently i feel that the hunt for good gear can be frustrating as its a uncertain grind depending fully on luck, even with the loot bar chance at max. Maybe you could change the prices by doubling the buying price (or halving the selling price)?

Well, I have been working on the heavy smoker flaw and so far it's working like it should. To "consume" them, you need to lit one with a heat source via crafting window and then just hold it in either hand. It will be consumed next turn, which removes a "Needs a cigarette" condition, which is like sweating but with more penalties. If you haven't smoked in a while you might get a headache too.

If you don't have the heavy smoker flaw, the player won't smoke the cigarette when holding it in either hand. If you have the asthmatic flaw, there's a 50% chance to trigger an asthma attack after a couple of turns. If the player is already suffering from an asthma attack, it won't be possible to consume a cigarette.

Since cigarettes can only be looted and their price has skyrocket, it's probably the most expensive habit in the game. Oh, and you can also use cigarettes to light other stuff but that's just a detail.

Is there anything I should consider before adding this new feature in the next update?


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Maybe when you finish them you should be able to roll brand new one from...five?

I had no idea what you meant so I did a search. It seems this is a common practice to save money or sometimes even a habit. Guess it's not a bad idea. They should be different, though. apart from having a more homemade look, they should sell for a lot less. Also, when these degrade, they should just disappear so you can't use roll-up cigarettes to make another.

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I can usually do it from three, and cigs are a little hard to find sometimes so that seems like an okay enough number for some last resort smokes to starve off the inevitable withdrawls, possibly have them sold in the junk market and the supermarket in DMC though.

Maybe even the teepee village.

Sure, I could make them available in the markets and the supermarket. If someone has the money to pay the current price I see no problem with adding them in the market lists. The roll-up ones won't be available in markets but I will make them so some NPC carry them too.

I've been trying the game with the smoker trait and even though the withdrawal effects are not fatal, cigarettes are too rare. Making them available for purchase would at least make the habit satiable for players that manage to make enough money.

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I don't have much free time to test changes much now but everything seems to be working fine. Guess it's time for version 3.1 of this mod. It includes:

-New negative trait, Smoker. The player will constantly crave for cigarettes. When the player is in need for a smoke, a number of small penalties will apply until the need is sated. Penalties include difficulty to sleep, increased hunger and thirst, easier to be smelled due to sweating, increased warmth due to sweating, easier to be spotted, reduced defense and you look less of a threat. Smoking a cigarette will recover some energy, part from removing the withdrawal effects temporarily.
-Only smokers can consume cigarettes.
-Smoking cigarettes might trigger an asthma attack on those with the asthmatic trait.
-Cigarette Packs have no price now.
-Decreased the price of quality cigarettes from 14 to 12 dollars each.
-Quality cigarettes will turn into cigarette leftovers when consumed, which can be used as kindling or to roll up makeshift cigarettes.
-Roll-up cigarettes sell for a lot less and holding a lit one will make you easier to smell but will satisfy the need to smoke just like quality cigarettes. To make one you need 5x cigarette leftovers and a piece of paper.
-Cigarettes are now sold in markets. Full packs can be bought from the C-Store for a lot of money.
-NPCs might either carry 1 to 2 quality cigs or roll-ups or a pack, though packs could be empty.
-Increased the price of coffee powder from 12 to 14 dollars.
-You can now use either the mechanic or the ranged skill to craft makeshift guns.
-Fixed a graphical glitch with flares when lit while holding them on either hand.

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Have you considered a trait like heavy smoker but with vaccine instead, like coffee or corns-cola.

Cannibal Family Picnic

I was actually considering a heavy drinker trait instead and add more alcohol choices.

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That would work but the reason I suggested caffeine is that 90 percent of regular coffee/energy drinkers have an addiction to caffine.

Cannibal Family Picnic

a quick question
what would be the ranking of all the shotguns??
weakest to strongest
- "Shredder" 12-gauge scatter gun
- "Shredder" 12-gauge scatter gun upgraded
- normal shotgun (no clue what it is called ingame)
- Cathcart North "Perforator" 12-gauge Sawoff Shotgun
- Deltec SBS4

is this correct?
or are some of them equal in firepower and range?

Most of that list is correct. Sawoff/Shortened shotguns do more damage and use less room but have less range and leave you vulnerable after firing them so it's kinda hard to think of which is best. I prefer range over damage so for me it would be:

- "Shredder" 12-gauge scatter Gun
- "Shredder" 12-gauge scatter Gun upgraded
- Cathcart North "Perforator" 12-gauge Shotgun sawoff
- Cathcart North "Perforator" 12-gauge Shotgun
- Deltec SBS4
- Deltec SBS4 with Tactical Stock

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thx for the quick reply ;)

Me again,here with some more suggestions.
I don't know if this this hard to code,but maybe you could add more places to visit in DMC?Beside the sprawl overhaul DMC has always been kinda meh,for me.There's obviously a nice parking lot hotel outside now,but please explain to me why there is no hotel option in the whole of Detroit?Be it futuristic or not,I think hotels should still be around,but that I think would be very hard to get enough money to rent a room,and I don't know how well that would work since you are in a encounter chain when entering DMC.
Also beside the Concrete apartments and the one and only get into that guy's apartment(the guy who calls the cops on you) and the dancing crowd there is actually just 2 other functional options,a Roast shop and a Small store,I'd feel better if you could actually do more in that area,Like actually Visit more apartments not just for the lolz but for(and we are returning to idea 1) searching,for supposed people who would want a tenant in case the hotel is a more expensive option.
That's all the ideas I have for DMC.

Oh and what I would personally see as freaking awesome would be a new weapon introduced.Ever since you introduced the scrap sword I always thought :"How freaking cool would a antique cavalry sword look".And that's my request,maybe you could rob a store in DMC for it(some sort of antique's museum,and aparently I was not done suggesting things for DMC,or maybe you could get it off a rare encounter with the ATN,FYI I don't know how a bunch of indians would get their hands on a european medieval sword but hell,their as close as medieval as it gets)
And the last one,Like I've seen other people suggest,not sure if it's possible but an automatic weapon would be awesome,maybe a weapon which only fires a barrage of bullets,like 3 on the lowest atack,and a "Supression" atack in which your char fires 3 burst's of 3 bullets at the target,either the M16 or the Ak-74 would serve this purpose.

I'm done with my rant,hope it wasn't to long to read and Happy Holidays!

I've actually never looked into how the DMC works. I'm not sure if more places can be added in there via modding but I will take a look. I agree, there is little to do in the city.

Also, I don't know about adding a medieval sword... I do have some planned weapons and items useable in combat but nothing like that. :P

Edit: Also, there's no way to separate single fire from burst fire so an automatic rifle would be pretty much like a hunting rifle but with more ammo capacity.

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I forgot to mention a couple more changes in the last update:

-ATN lodge illness treatment now includes drinking berry root tea.
-Severe asthma attacks won't kill you instantly now. Instead of having a 10% chance for a severe asthma to kill the player all of a sudden, it has a 10% chance to go even worse, quickly draining stamina each turn and worsening the penalties. You might need more than one shot to recover from it and if you fail to treat it, it will "tire" you down to death. If you are both blacking out and unconscious, then you die.

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Does anyone know if it's safe for me to install ver. 3.1 over the top of ver. 3.0 b and NOT have it screw up my progression in the game? I'm using Banjo's "must have" Save Manager mod.

And an ENORMOUS "Thank You!" for the splendid additions that you've made to this great game! Your hard work and generosity is a "for sure" boon to the NEO Scavenger community!

I wouldn't really know. I'm not familiar with save managers. This update is safe to use with saves from version 3.0 but that's for using just this mod.

Also, thanks! I'm trying to do good things now that I still have free time. :3

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Loving the new updates, Chiko!

My only problem is that for some reason, after v3.0, my "Classic Skill Selection Mod" refuses to load alongside your NSE mod, and I have NO idea why! As far as I can tell, nothing changed in yours that should "break" it, but game loading always freezes for me now at "loading images" for NSE. If you get a spare moment, I don't suppose you could try and load the two yourself and see if you can think of why this would be? I'll of course fix anything myself, but I'm frankly at a loss as to why this suddenly no longer works when it did in version 2.9 and below.

My Mods:SaveMan|Fishing|Shouldered|Bottles

Hmm... That does sound weird. Version 3.0 had no changes to skills/flaws in any way. Imma see if I can spot the problem.

Edit: Well, it seems it doesn't even work with version 2.9 for me. It gets stuck on 61% but I can't see anything wrong. I'll just skip version 2.9 and move to version 3.1 and see if I find what's wrong.

Edit2: I have no idea what could be causing the error... The weirdest part is the conflicting piece of code seems to be coming from NeoScavExtended (my files) when your mod files are installed but as soon as I remove your files and keep my mod only, the game runs with no issues.

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Thanks for your help, mate! That's exactly what was puzzling me, too.

It SEEMS like the issue is that my Classic Skill Selection Mod (CCSM) "overwrites" a part of yours (it "patches"/overwrites your added NSE traits simply to make their weights = 1). This used to be impossible with old NeoScavenger beta versions, but Dan fixed that a while back. I know it worked, too, because that same CCS mod DOES overwrite/patch my Fishing Mod skill in the same way without any error, and - more confusingly - it DID work with your NSE version 2.9 and below!

I actually encountered the same issue when I tried to update my Shouldered mod to add (i.e. patch) your waterskin, strapped spears and makeshift longarm guns as I did Kaaven's MmMoD shotguns (which again, works fine), but back then I thought it was just something I'd done wrong and put it aside until after Christmas. Now that it's happening with CCSM (which I knew worked before), I'm at a loss what's happening here!

The ONLY thing I can think of is that it freezes on loading NeoScavExtended at "images" (either 501 or 503 for me, depending if it's the updated WIP that also patches "Smoker"), right? Could this be not so much a bug in either my or your mods, but a glitch in the game? Maybe one that doesn't like so many images being loaded from two different sources (NSE v2.9 had less than NSE 3.0 and 3.1). That makes little sense to me, but it is literally the only significant difference here I can think of.

Thoughts, mate? Anyone else?

My Mods:SaveMan|Fishing|Shouldered|Bottles

Hmm... it being some kind of overwriting bug does make sense coz nothing in the files seem to be wrong. It's probably best to mention this in the technical support section. I've come across some bugs I thought were from my mod but were actually from the vanilla game. This might be the case too.

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Thanks for the thoughts, mate. I might message Dan about it and see if he can see what's causing it when he's back from holidays (in case the next update needs a bugfix). What's really odd is that not only does the error not happen with other mods like MmMoD or my Fishing mod, but even if the "override" mod has no images in it, the game still crashes while loading NSE's images at the same place. Very confusing!

My Mods:SaveMan|Fishing|Shouldered|Bottles

Really fun mod you have here. I wanted to know more about these Cleaners though I've yet to see one. Here are my questions so far:
1. Where do they typically spawn?
2. Do they have some kind of unique loot that sets them apart from the other NPCs?
3. Do they drop their loot in certain spots like how Looters did in the vanilla game (I found a nest to the north of DMC)?
4. What's the best way to kill them so I can get their stuff (if I can loot their corpses)?

I kinda hope you didn't have them spawn near the DMC since in my games before downloading this mod, I relied on the random looters and Bad Muthas dropping dead so I could pillage their stuff like their guns...

I added the Cleaners as a solution for something I consider an issue in the game. The issue being the mountains of loot you start to find in late games due to NPCs dying around the map all the time. Their only purpose is to spawn (Only one will roam an area) and then proceed to pick up the most they can carry for a certain amount of time and then despawn, taking the loot with them.

1-They spawn all over the map but never in groups. Most NPCs will ignore them and they will usually run away from anything that is not another Cleaner.

2-The only loot they carry that sets them apart from the other factions are their tarp cloaks, once you spot one you will immediately know they are a Cleaner. They only carry a plastic bag so they can carry more stuff but since they pick up everything of value they see, they could even be armed or dressed differently.

3-They disappear with the loot they find, never to be found again so never drop something of value on the ground, leave stuff in campsites instead. Campsites are pretty much invisible to them even if the camp has little concealment.

4-They are really sneaky and resistant to the elements but they are not warriors. If you encounter one, they will run away. There are rare cases in which they defend themselves and since they don't usually carry weapons and have the strong skill, they might grapple you and might even strangle you to death since they have better stamina than most.

They are really effective at cleaning places of dropped loot so they might be a bit annoying to you since you rely on picking up dropped loot. I added them because in late games, it was not even necessary to loot places anymore since everything could be just found on the ground. :P

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Well, it would save time on keeping the map clean late game since it would take away the point of scavenging if everything you need can just be picked up off the ground without any real effort. However, I would find it irritating in the early parts of the game since I tend to gather stuff near DMC and then load up to tackle the quest to get the cure to Blue Rot while ignoring the main story. One last question about them: is there a way to disable their spawning in the xml file so that they don't show up in my game? I like the idea of cleaners and I don't want to alter your mod, but I'd rather have them running around when I have a decent amount of cash and gear (not to mention my Blue Rot immunity) to not care about them since I can just hunt other survivors for their stuff, not when I'm just starting out. When I can confidently go out and map the entire game, then I can toggle them back on and have them do their job.

In the xml file of the mod, there should be a number of creaturesources tables. I think if you set their nMin/nMax to 0, it will prevent them from spawning.

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Cool, that will be really helpful. Can't wait to see more additions to your mod and have a happy New Year with love from New York~

I've been trying the new update whenever I have time and I have only found one bug so far. It allows cigarette leftovers to be used as ash. It's easy to fix so it won't be there in the next update.

Also, the smoker flaw is actually kinda fun to have. Worrying about having a pack of cigarette in your pockets, putting all the cigarettes you find in the pack and making roll-up cigarettes with the leftovers to satisfy the need to smoke makes things interesting. It adds a new purpose apart from the survival and quest related ones. As I imagined, it's a pretty expensive habit and a lighter will be a must since you will be using it a lot more often. It's the only flaw I actually like. :P

I'm not sure about how often the player gets the need to smoke them. I get the feeling a smoker would need to smoke more often than it does right now, which is like 1 cigarette each day. If you buy a full pack of them from the C-Store and you buy cigarettes from the other stores whenever they are available and the fact that they aren't really that rare, you will never need to buy another full pack again.

And now, a question. What about changes in the quick recipe categories?

I mean like renaming the "Medic" category to "Aid" and add recipes related to water boiling, clean rags, and stuff related to drugs like coffee and mixed drinks.

I would also like to add a new category called "Gear" which will include all recipes related to armor, clothing, holsters, bags, etc.

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Erm... I'm usually quiet around here, I just like hearing and trying out other people's ideas, but Chiko, one a day? Really? That would hardly make a dent in a smoker's craving. ;) In fact, it would make things genuinely worse than quitting cold turkey. I haven't tried the mod yet, and balance will probably become an issue, but 3-5 a day may *start* being closer to realistic. It won't fix the craving, but you'll be able to think of other things during the day. XD

That said, now that you started to dance, you should really tango with it. XD There has to be a way to quit, both a cold turkey one (can easily keep having side effects for a month) and a medical one. Also, didn't nicotine patches get mentioned already?

Anyway, just rambling. :) Haven't played it yet, I'm one of the forgotten souls who work overtime during the holidays. :P It does actually sound like a fun flaw though, so thanks. :)

NEO Scavenger: FAQ
10 Ways (not) to Die - A beginner's guide


That's a lot of cigarettes! Well, to tell you the truth, I know very little about addictions so I had to google some things. I'll work on trying to make it more like you mention.

I'll also do some research and thinking about the quitting part. I can already imagine it will be a bit complicated to implement but I'll see what I can do.

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The another problem with smoking is really that - if you have more, you will smoke more. 3-5 might be realistic as a minimum, but if a smoker has a full pack on him, he will somehow justify smoking more ("the morning one, to start me going", "one after the dinner makes my day", "one after a fight calms me down", "I'm resting, so I better smoke now, cause later there might be no time", "taking a dump - no better time to have a smoke", "the day's last cigarette helps me sleep" - there is one for every thing you can possibly do ;D).

That's why it is called the "chain smoking". To delect on the taste, from time to time, is not enough.

<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
DeviantArt Gallery of MoD Sprites

Hmm... I'm not sure how I could implement something like that. The closest thing I can come up with would be to make it so smoking a cigarette triggers the need to smoke another one earlier than every 8 hours, which is what I'm trying right now.

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Okay, so you two know I'm gonna talk out of my ass here, cause all I know about modding the game comes from reading the forums. But lemme try to explain what I imagine in as close to "mechanical" terms as I can wrap my head around, then you can take what you find is usable/interesting/possible and have fun with it.

I imagine coming out of Cryo you're basically already detoxed (physiologically), so you're probably only craving a cigarette for habit/psychological reasons. That may trigger your brain to start experiencing fake withdrawl symptoms some point in the first day, so maybe the initial trigger/penalties could be left as they are. Once you do have that first cigarette, if you used to be a heavy smoker, you will probably start really craving another one in anything between 2-6 hours. (Btw, the hours are really just random, they depend on the person and the habit, so yuh, make what you want out of them). So you could maybe make it so that the need triggers faster after you smoke the first cigarette, if possible. Another thing that may simulate it better is to make some of the penalties be more severe, but one-time time triggered events (as opposed to permanent penalties). If that is possible, it could potentially simulate the peaks after that first cigarette. So maybe after not smoking for 8 hours your hunger gets a rather significant one-time impact. That impact could maybe come again after another 8 hours of not smoking. After 4-5 days, that one-time impact could more or less disappear. Does that sound like something doable that isn't an extravagant amount of work? Because if it does, it could basically be a way to do quitting.

Now, as Kaaven says, if you are currently holding 10 cigarettes, you may want to smoke all 10 of them. So maybe after smoking 3 cigarettes all at once (before the need triggers), the time in between triggers gets even shorter. I don't really know what thresholds are or how they work, but would it be something you could use to simulate something like that?

And btw, smoking is bad for your immune system. Like really bad. Imagine every cigarette as a slight dip in that bar (in fact, two cigarettes in an hour could actually be two dips, thus punishing a player for overdoing it in an easy to implement way). Plus, smoking lowers your thirst not when you are craving a cigarette, but rather right after you had one. Quite opposite to hunger: smoking basically stops your hunger bar from moving for a while, but withdrawal makes it run overtime. Would that work ingame?

To be honest, I feel almost dirty teaching innocent souls about addiction. Also, if this was my one chance to contribute something to a mod, shame on me. XD Anyway, whatever you decide, it sounds tons of fun to play as it is, looking forward to it. :)

NEO Scavenger: FAQ
10 Ways (not) to Die - A beginner's guide

I use the thresholds for some things but I have never done something as dinamic as that before. I'm not even sure if it's possible. xD

I'll be more specific with how the smoking is working right now and how can we make it better with this new info by posting the mechanics:

1-As soon as the game starts, the player triggers the "Smoked a cigarette" hidden condition. This is a way to give the player 7 hours after triggering the "Needs a cigarette" at the end of the timer.

2-The "Needs a cigarette" condition lasts 8 turns and affects these things:

So it one-time tires you, increases your need for water and food, makes it a bit harder to sleep, makes you warmer and smellier (similar to what sweating does), affects your defense, morale, ability to remain hidden and ability to spot enemies since it effects your concentration. As you suggested, I will move the fWaterConsumptionRate to the "Smoked a cigarette" condition and also add a fFoodConsumptionRate that slightly reduces hunger in there too.

3-When the "Needs a cigarette" condition reaches the end of its timer, it will trigger itself again along with a 80% chance to also trigger a headache.

4-When the player holds a lit cigarette in either hand, the "Smoking a cigarette" shows up, which affects these things:


So when the player is holding a cigarette, it will "wake" him up a little with a one-time stamina boost and make him easier to track by smell. when the cigarette degrades, it will trigger the previously mentioned "Smoked a cigarette" hidden condition. So smoking cigarettes effectively reduces the time before the player needs another cigarette by 1 hour so the player will need 3 cigarettes one day and 4 the next if he smokes often enough.

The "Smoked a cigarette" was just a 7 hours timer condition before but the new suggestions for it do make sense and I feel it's more realistic.

Also, about the immune system penalty... should it be tied to one of these active conditions or should it be tied to the flaw itself as a passive penalty?

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Thanks for taking the time Chiko! For someone like me who only has a rudimentary undestanding of how the actual coding part of things works, that's really interesting.

So yes, now that I undestand how it's set up, it's a pretty neat simulation. I think it does a great job of subtly affecting your playthrough actually. :)

RE: immune system penalty. I'm on two minds about it. The reality of the matter is, if a player is a smoker, reduced immune system should be a permanent effect, by definition. That said, I think you could maybe do both? A small passive penalty makes sense, but reintroducing nicotine to a body will re-unbalance that body's ability to, for example, recover from diseases. (It actually really does that btw - don't smoke kids. :p) Which could probably be simulated from a small one-time hit to the immune system every time the condition is active. It probably should be really small, but from how the system is set up, it will actually turn into a big penalty over time, making managing it more challenging as time goes by. That will in later game (when you can buy a pack or 3 from the store) turn the problem of this flaw around: instead of the challenge to find the next cigarette, you have to deal with the challenge of managing your deteriorating health. Sounds fun to me. :)

NEO Scavenger: FAQ
10 Ways (not) to Die - A beginner's guide

Hello Chiko.

Could you please take a look at a thread that I've started on the appearance of a Red X icon appearing in my game? I'm wondering if it's in any way related to any of the mods that I'm using, and your work is central to my setup.

The link's here: [html]http://bluebottlegames.com/main/node/4097#comment-19836/[/html]

Sounds like a sprite not loading properly. Imma go take a look at that thread.

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For some reason this mod fixed all of the bugs I've been experiencing. lol
Awesome mod, really appreciate it.

Thanks. Glad to hear you like the mod! :3

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I seem to not be ale to play it, I keep getting .img errors when I copy over 0 file and img and neogame.xml

That's weird... which software are you using to open the .rar file?

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I'm reinstalling my game for the second time trying to get the mod to work. I've tried looking into the game data to see where it's broken, but I'm having a tough time trying to fix it.

Edit: I finally got the game to start. I have no idea if it'll work properly. This took too many hours to get it this far. There really should be an idiot-proof guide to set this up properly without having to go into Notepad, learn a new syntax, fiddle with the numbers, then run repeated tests to see if it works.

Actually, the only thing you need to do is to open the .rar file, copy all its contents and paste them into the game directory, which is usually Steam/steamapps/common/Neo Scavenger. One of the files inside is an already edited getmods.php so there's no need to make manual changes unless you want it to work with other mods.

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Fortunately, it appears to work right now. The programming you put into it is quite nice, especially the new conditions for many of the items.

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