Water bottle holding *Spoiler Possibilty* *Bug possibilty*

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Water bottle holding *Spoiler Possibilty* *Bug possibilty*

i was wanting to know why water bottles hold these items but not others?

Items the water bottle would hold: small string(but not medium),small parts(Edit:Tools removed),pills,lockpicks,glass shards,ashes.

Items that would not go into a water bottle:ketchup,crackers,small twigs,plastic bags,recipe paper,stones,aa batteries, and lighters.

Other items i could not try as i did not have any in current inventory.

i know that water bottles can hold water and other liquids,along with some other real items (sand,can tabs,nuts and screws,spices etc) but the above accepted and non accepted lists conflict with each other as there are items that could go into one that are not allowed and then some that are allowed that should not be allowed. Is there a specific reason for this?

This was due to a recent change I made in acceptable bottle content IDs. Previously, it was just liquids. Now, it's liquids and "fine" objects.

"Fine" is a property set on certain items, and is used for things which would slip through the cracks in a shopping basket. Technically, it should only include:

small parts
pills
berries
ashes
gelli bears
hospital wrist strap
small string
lockpicks
broken glass

so if tools fit in there, that may be a bug. The other items you listed might fit inside the bottle, but I didn't think one would ever get them out again without destroying the bottle. E.g.

There are a few special case items that bottles may need to accept, which don't currently work. Namely, pebbles and bullets.

Though, if this seems unrealistic, let me know!

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

yea tools do NOT fit --confirmed (i ment to say small parts.)

also how about "message in the bottles"? or recipes and paper scraps.

i think pebbles or bullets are ok,maybe even stones for that matter since a sling can sling them.

Getting bullets out of a bottle sounds like a nuisance... But slipping them in is easy.
It works. Plus I've seen lotsa people put rocks in water bottles.

Burp

Is there any hope for getting pebbles to fit inside bottles?

Personally, I'd rather bottles went back to liquids only.

Since bottles can store more space than they take up you can abuse that to store a lot of whatever you're able to put in them.

Indeed. I've been exploiting this to make bottles of geli bears, which make for a useful, compact source of travel food. Especially useful when playing cartographer and you don't happen across any game to hunt.

I can understand why this would be viewed as an exploit, but is it game-breaking?

That's a good point, actually. I hadn't considered the exploit angle.

As for the pebbles, I was picturing pebbles being large enough to be useful as bullets in a sling, which are probably too large for the mouth of a water bottle. However, there's nothing stopping them from fitting in there if modders wanted to adjust item classifications for more personalized experiences.

I may have to revert to liquids-only, though, as Dragoonseal points out. It'll depend on whether I add anything to solve mixing liquids in a container or not. (Time permitting)

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

If that's the angle you want to go with then why allow the backpacks to have more space inside than what they take up outside?
Why allow the cardboard boxes to fit inside a backpack when it realistically wouldn't?

And as for how large or small a rock should be to be used as ammo, have you used a sling? The ammo I've seen people use for them usually is about the same size as a large handgun bullet and would easily fit inside the mouth of a water bottle. Granted they'd probably use something larger if they wanted to deal some extra damage, but that's where stones would come into play instead of pebbles. Stones should not fit in a water bottle. For that matter I don't think the shards of glass should either since anything that would fit through the mouth would be too small or too brittle to be of any real use.

But remember, it's a game and not only should it make sense, it shouldn't be a nightmare to manage your inventory. All those 'space saving exploits' only help so much since you still need to be able to carry the load. Every extra item you cram into your sled or backpack is accounted for and there's a point at which having more inventory space doesn't matter because you just can't drag it all around.

I recently finished a game where I'd managed to find 7 backpacks and a box cart and I'd crammed 4 backpacks on the cart, had 1 in each hand, and 1 on my back...and when I say 'finished' I really mean 'got caught by a group of 3 Muthas and couldn't get away because I was carrying too much stuff and I didn't ditch my cart fast enough because I thought it was worth the risk to fight for when they only had bottles and fists and I had a broadspear'. I bet they enjoyed splitting up that loot once they finished kicking me to death and patched themselves up...

Edit:
Another solution you may consider for the 'the bottles are bigger inside than out' is make liquids 2x2 instead of 2x3 and then adjust all the bottles to match. That way they'd take up 4 squares and have 4 squares capacity and it wouldn't matter so much what you could fit inside them. That would also allow you to carry liquids in the soup cans which would be helpful, if a bit unrealistic given there's no lid for the cans...but you can use a can to boil water so obviously the liquids fit...

Well there is another possibility, though It would take a little bit of overhauling. Change the space in the bottle to be a 2X2 space and liquids to match. But honestly, I don't see why it's a problem. I mean something that is 'fine' and could slip through cracks could also contort shape with other 'fine' objects and become more efficient inside the bottle than if left loose in a bag or in the open.

So I don't think it is something that breaks the realism. The only other reason to fix it would be an unfair advantage in game play, and honestly, I think it's just 'smart packing' verses something unfair.

(now if a container could fit inside another container and loop back to cause an infinite inventory effect... Ya we'd need to change something.)

Regardless of the "realism" or "exploit" factors, I would rather bottles hold only liquids for convenience sake. It always annoys me when I pick up small things like pills and they get put into empty bottles. If I don't notice this when it happens, I'll have no idea where the item went and will have trouble finding it. It's somewhat similar to the issue of pills relocating to other pill bottles when you empty one out, and it sounds like you plan to change that.

Part of the issue is that filled bottles look the same (e.g., plastic bottle turns blue even if it has glass shards in it) so there's no immediate indication that it holds anything other than the "standard" contents.

Your convenience would be many others annoyance. Depending on how many bottles you find or carry with you, not being able to put anything but liquids in them would translate to a fair amount of wasted inventory space if they're all empty. In the early game finding bottles is really important and finding good water to fill them with can be difficult. Being able to fill them with other things is a huge bonus when you're low on inventory space because you don't have a backpack or a cart yet, not just because they're 'bigger on the inside' but because those 4 squares that bottle is taking up in your inventory isn't 'empty space' till you find a good water source.

I also dislike that bottles only have 1 'full' artwork, but it's not terribly difficult to arrange your inventory so you know what's what. You just need to take the time to be aware of where stuff is going when you're looting.

This is getting to be a pretty complex issue, and the better solutions involve a lot of work.

There's a certain "fudge factor" involved in items right now, to account for things like limited UI space and the invisible 3rd dimension. Items like the backpack are intended to be 3D objects, so giving them space inside equal to their height x width might be limiting. Hence, they have more space inside than their height/width suggests.

Similarly, items have stack limits that are guesstimates that take into account depth. E.g. iSlabs stack because their depth is so small compared to height and width, but bottles do not.

The container system also cares about things like item classification. Liquids only go inside waterproof containers, electricity inside charge-holders, and fine objects won't go inside containers with coarse holes.

When you put all these things together, we have lots of room for error. Tweaking one object's container type, stack size, or other property can cause illogical changes elsewhere. This is why we have so many inconsistencies. (Indeed, allowing non-liquids in bottles opened up this debate in the first place.)

Before I go and make any changes to items here, I'll need time to look into it. Reverting to liquids-only simplifies things, but lacks realism. On the other hand, changing item properties to fix the bottle might break the shopping cart or other containers.

I've made a bug for this in my list, though it's lower in priority due to the large amount of time it'll take to untangle. If there is time, or a faster solution, I may be able to snipe it in between bigger priorities.

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

The more I think about it the more I think changing the liquids to be 2x2 and altering the bottles to match would probably be the best solution. If you take away the 'bigger on the inside' aspect of bottles it'll solve any inventory exploits for putting non-liquids in them. And since liquids can't go in any other container what size the liquids are doesn't really affect anything other than the bottles.

Another plus for changing water to 2x2:
>You can put water into soupcans now (which was kinda dumb in the first place for not being able to, even if you'd need to come up with a way to actually seal the thing IRL. Just saying.)