A tutorial would be nice

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A tutorial would be nice

I only recently surfed though the guides section in steam, little did I know that can press the arrow keys to change items positions, information like this can affect some life saving moments of whether I carried enough food or not.

It's funny that you should mention this actually, since some of the UI changes for the 0.986b had things like this in mind and sparked some debate about how a large amount of players will inevitably miss things like keybindings that aren't explicitly pointed out to them in game.

Rotating items is another one of those things. It's in the manual, it's in the wiki, it's in the Help screen on the main menu of the game, and it's even in some Steam Community Guides, but a huge amount of players still never discover how to do it for quite some time, if ever.

I guess a pop up item tutorial could be added for first time players to point out some important things, similar to how there's a one time tutorial for scavenging and what the hex icons indicate, but even I know plenty of people skip those too since there are still posts asking about them and I've watched plenty of streamers do it too.

It is pretty annoying when people complain about having tutorials, when they make no effort at all to even search for the information they are asking for, and "skipping" what tutorials there are, then whining that they don't know what certain things mean. Not that this person is, but remarking on streamers and youtubers that skip the learning stages and jump right into it, just to screw up the most basic thing later on and blame the game for their own mistake. I've watched a lot of people complain about a game being too hard, and all they've played before it was Pokemon.

VanScythe wrote:

I've watched a lot of people complain about a game being too hard, and all they've played before it was Pokemon.

It doesn't help the game to grow by condemning less-experienced player, people ask for a good reason; because they are new to the game and don't know what to do. Not everyone has played alot of hex-based rpg throughout their life times. Everyone has their own learning style and learning curve, some learn through trial and error, some learn by first taking a dive into the game and complaining. (What I think in my own opinion) The game could only do so much to point the directions players need to head towards, i.e. What Dragoonseal said, pop-up tutorials. I mean if the player choose to close the tips to not show up in the game, then sure, it is on their head to blame. It is their failure to recognise information when its spoon-fed, right in front of them.

To me (in my own opinion) the game would feel less disconnected to its own universe, if a player could find the information inside the game (more obvious UI) vs. having to search for the information in a well written manual or opening a web tab of wikipedia.

I wasn't condemning less experienced players. I was making a point that all the basic information anyone needs to play the game is already available to them IN THE GAME, and people seem to think they need more. Technically it already has a tutorial. This new generation of gamers seems to want their hands held through the entire game. Take Dark Souls for instance. They made the most basic tutorial possible, and left the player to discover the rest on their own. The same goes for Elder Scrolls games, and hundreds of others. You can't become an expert without playing a game for an extended period of time, and even then there are plenty of things to learn. Spoon-feeding every bit of information the game has to offer is pointless. It takes away the fun of learning how a game works, and learning how to handle what it offers. I think the tutorial NEO has is as much as it needs. Phil isn't a master survivalist at the start. Neither are we. It's called a learning curve, and every decent game has one. If someone flies through and skips the information that the game offers them, it's their own fault for not taking their time and assuming they're the masters of the universe and can win everything. This is the first time I've played a game like this since the original Fallout games (of which I only played a few hours), and I did just fine. Inexperience really is no excuse for blaming a game for a persons' own faults.

I'm not sure what you think is a "more obvious UI", considering everything available is pretty self explanatory. Hungry, Thirsty, Tired, Weather/time of day, item descriptions. It only takes a little thought and some common sense to understand what something does. The design of this game is realistic and logical. What would do more damage, a stick or a crowbar? What would feed you more, some berries or a steak?

I intend no insult or offense with what I say. But it's my personal belief that the new generation of gamer has no sense of what playing games actually means. To PLAY them. I apologize for sounding so coarse, but this is a topic of much heated feelings for me. I started out with Mario, Duck Hunt, and Metroid. Then I went on to Turok, 007, Rugrats (yes I mean it), Pokemon, Castlevania, Donkey Kong, and Banjo-Kazooie. Then I went to games periodically as my skill progressed and I understood them more and more. People nowadays (usually starting at age 5) jump right into CoD, Battlefield, horror games, Final Fantasy, Elder Scrolls, Dark Souls, and many other complex games. Then they complain about how hard it is and how everyone else is better at it than they are. It just irks me that people don't take their time to learn, and just want everything handed to them on a silver platter. A game where you die constantly and have to start over every time should not have to feed people that couldn't otherwise understand how it operates.

Once again I apologize for being brash, and I am not condemning less experienced players. Just the players that instead of learning how to play games in general, expect the devs to give them a handout on how the game works, even when such a thing already exists INSIDE THE GAME that they are complaining about.

The UI, could use a little more tweaking, mostly in the sense of how information is fed to the player, but there's a limit to what can be done, and mostly for me, its all personal preference. I would like to be able to see the available concealment of the areas around me, rather than dive in and find out there wasn't actually a dense thicket there, and just normal woods, and they aren't enough to hide me from the dog-men pack on my ass.

As is now, it's acceptable, and the minimal that one would require to 'common sense' their way through a situation, however, 'common sense' is fickle, and can also be referred to as 'Adventure Game Logic'. "Why can't I-" "Why doesn't-", these are mostly the same people who believe that tracking, hiding, medic, and the 'utility' skills are all useless, and require more in depth and, shall we say, adventurous, use. Tracking could be a bit better, that I think is agreed upon near universally, however the rest...Opinions can be scattered. Some things may not work as one would expect, after all, 'If I can strong/Melee one dogman, why can't I strong/melee the rest?'

I meant "common sense" as a real-world thought process, not just in the game. As i said, what would you rather use, a crowbar or a stick? This kind of thinking is required for a game of life and death. If you realistically and honestly believe that charging an armored guard with a shotgun, and all you have is a small poky piece of glass, then you should really try rethinking the way your every day mind operates.

As for the UI, I agree that they could use some tweaking and display more accurate information. But honestly all the necessary "basic" info is readily available to you to allow you to survive successfully. So making additions in this respect is a complete waste of time.

Depends on what I'm using the stick/crowbar for, I mean if i need a splint, then I'd probably use the crowbar as I can expect it to last longer and provide better support, it even has a little hook to keep my foot and ankle from rolling improperly.

I can't expect that in Neo Scav can I? :p

It doesn't make sense to make a tutorial while the game is still in development and changes constantly. But the problem of the hard to find help screen is currently worked on: http://bluebottlegames.com/main/node/2982

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

That looks absolutely amazing! I very much look forward towards the next patch!

That patch 0.986b is already out in the form of an opt-in beta update.

http://bluebottlegames.com/main/news
http://bluebottlegames.com/main/node/2992