can't get rid of gastroenteritis (ate a small portion of rotten meat)

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can't get rid of gastroenteritis (ate a small portion of rotten meat)

early in the game i was curious and ate one small piece. since then i can't get rid of it, tried bark tea, nanobots, i'm keeping my character comfortable/hydrated/sated, sleeping mostly in well sheltered areas, etc. wiki says it will go away after some time, but it isn't happening. can i get rid of it anyhow or is it a bug?

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___crowbar_of_death___/

How many days have you had it at this point? I would suggest that in real life it would take weeks or months to heal and that it likely is the same in game. Looks like you have a long road ahead of you!

does anyone know how long it takes until the text "ate a medium/ small portion of spoiled meat" goes away? its been at least a month since i ate it, but in condition screen it says that ^ still.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is how i picture every single Blue Frogs' face in my head

StruggleSnugglez: i ate it during few first days when i was learning how to survive, right now it's 52nd day and it still persists. so it would be almost 5-7 weeks. google says: "Most cases of gastroenteritis do not require treatment and the symptoms will improve after a few days. Medication may be needed in severe cases.". as i have treated my char right and used nanobots few times during past few game time weeks it's definitely a bug

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___crowbar_of_death___/

I usually take a drug and it goes away by the next day.

If the message "Ate a small portion of rotten meat" is somehow stuck on the player, that's a bug. That message should only appear in the log at the bottom of the screen when you eat the rotten meat, and goes away as the message log scrolls to the top.

Gastroenteritis will show up on the conditions list, and should last 3 days. If that's stuck after 3 days, there may be a bug, as well.

Just to confirm, which version of the game are you using? 0.984, 0.985, or different?

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

character was created in windows steam version 0.984b, then i moved the save to the linux standalone 0.985b. right now i'm playing new character, but i have save backed-up.

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___crowbar_of_death___/

I've got this bug also. I'm using version 0.984b(test) on steam. The message also shows up under my conditions when in combat. I never got gastroenteritis but that may be because i got nanotreatment right after accidentally eating the meat. It cleared up poison 1.

I tried including a screenshot but it triggered the forum spam filter.

I had this happen to me on an earlier version, and it went away as soon as I consumed an antibiotic pill. This hasn't happened to me on newer versions, so I'm not sure if it's been fixed.

Definitely a bug.

And apparently not fixed, yet. Perhaps partially, but not completely. At least in certain conditions, it got even worse than before: now, this little green message stating that player ate small spoiled piece of meat - can equal sudden death of otherwise perfectly safe and healthy character.

Just happened to me. 0.9937b, downloaded version. And i have a save backup, which is few turns before initial "severe abdomen pain" and diarrea starts - here it is: http://www.filedropper.com/nssgv1 (skip the add, press "download this file", sometimes the captcha fails even with proper input, so it may be needed to refresh the page and try again).

Amazingly, the death happens all of a sudden some 15+ hours _after_ abdomen pains are gone, diarreia gone, immune system is back to 100%, and even despite eating prescription antibiotic pill some ~12 hours before death.

Here's detailed description of (imho) relevant actions which led to this death:

Spoiler: Highlight to view
1. Killed dogman in the lab
2. Returned to the lab after the dusk day 1, cooked meat which was left there
3. Took some cooked meat along going out at day 2 morning
4. Some time during day 2 ate _two_ _small_ pieces of spoiled cooked meat
5. The message "ate small spoiled meat pease" appeared, otherwise no ill effects at the time
6. Returned to the lab about dusk of day 3 (this is where the posted save is)
7. Severe abdomen pain and diarreia started few turns after
8. Kept drinking _sterilized_ water, eating good (not spoiled) cooked meat (from recently killed 2nd dogman) only as nesessary to keep sated. No wounds, no bruises, all water is from the lake (or was it a river?) 3 tiles from the lab.
9. SLept, when not sleeping - remained at room 17 doing "rest and heal", in hiding. Spent whole day 3 doing it and p.8
10. Diarreia appeared once again and then went away on its own once again. Abdomen pain also disappeared. Immune system went back to 100% by itself. The option "rest and heal" disappeared, indicating that character is not sick.
11. Took prescription antibiotic pill, seeing the message "ate spoiled meat" persisting.
12. Day 4 started. Went out to nearby lake, got 10 bottles of water. Killed 1 bad mutha on the way back. Removed tracks.
13. Upon returning to room 17, boiled all water, double-checked every drop, all were sterilized. Bottled them.
14. Having some medium pieces of cured meet being still good, went on to keep doing p.8 and p.9, simply skipping turns whenever unable to sleep.
15. Died, without no warning, while awake. I.e., everything was seemingly going OK, then i pressed "end turn" once again - and BAM, death screen. :D

Here's the death log (copied by using "clipboard" button in the death screen):

Spoiler: Highlight to view
Survival Time: 4 days, 14.42 hours.
Player has died of poisoning.

Final Moments:

Player is warmed by a heater.
Player is in a campsite with an average sleeping bag.
Player is warmed by a heater.
Player is in a campsite with an average sleeping bag.
Game started.
Player drank some water.
** End Turn **
It is now Dusk
** End Turn **
Player has died of poisoning.

Player has a high metabolism, and consumes food and water faster than most. However, Player also recovers faster from wounds and illness.
Player is tough, can take more of a beating than most, and recovers faster.
Player is strong, and can carry more than most.
Player is skilled in trapping and snares.
Player is skilled in diagnosing and repairing machines.
Player is skilled in ranged combat. Player can engage at longer range than most, and ranged weapons degrade slower.
Player suffers from near-sightedness.
Player is skilled in medical procedures, which increases rate of recovery from wounds.
Player's hunger is sated.
Player is comfortable.
Player has a normal circulation of blood.
Player is not experiencing any pain.
Player's immune system is healthy.
Player has not acted significantly more evil nor good.
Player is wearing the protective talisman.
Player is wearing a wrist strap from Gyges Cryo Facility.
Player knows that the creature coming down the hall was a dogman.
Player has discovered the bank account info at cryo lab.
Player has previously returned to the cryo facility.
Player has previously discovered exam room 17.
Player has already had DMC guard conversation 1.
Player cannot run in combat.
Player's thirst is slaked.
Player is using an optical magnification device.
Player is unburdened by what Player is carrying.
Player is well-rested.
Player is actively hiding, and is harder to see.
Player has died of poisoning.

Smash this bug once and for all, please - it definitely is a "killer for a beginner". :D

... our lifestyles, mores, institutions, patterns of interaction, values, and expectations are shaped by a cultural heritage that was formed in a time when carrying capacity exceeded the human load. (c) William R. Catton, Jr

During the time when the character is poisoned, some symptoms - including tummy pains and diarrhea might or might not persist, but the only sure way to get rid of poison is to use the Nanobot Kit or Nano Treatment at the clinic. Otherwise there is a risk that the poison will kill you.

Keep in mind that the poison and gastroenteritis are two separate conditions - the first one is deadly on it's own, while the other is only a mild annoyance (unless paired with something else). Eating spoiled meat causes both of those simultaneously.

Your death-log clearly states that your character died of poisoning. Be careful about that, next time.


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
DeviantArt Gallery of MoD Sprites

The problem remains, though: the character died of poisoning while having perfectly healthy immune system. Death log mentions that. There _was_ an immune system response, - for a day or so, immune system meter remained at some ~75%, - but it went back to full well before death, seemingly indicating recovery from poison.

There was never "gastroenteritis" line - not in the log, nor in the character screen.

Next, it's not exactly realistic that character dies after eating half a kilo of spoiled meat, considering that
- he had diarreia twice, which means the body got rid of most of toxins;
- he drinked some 10+ liters of water after eating spoiled meat, means kidneys got rid of lots of remaining toxins;
- he ate a prescription antibiotic pill well before he died;
- he rested or slept for some 24+ hours straight, until the point his immune system went back to 100%;
- he's "tough" and "metabolism" (trait) and "medic", assuming maximum possible body ability to self-heal. Perhaps, overflow here? =)

Last but not least - it certainly doesn't feel right that _functionally_ fully capable (during day 4) character goes on for some 14+ hours, being able to perform as well as perfectly healthy - and then drops dead on the spot instantly because of poison which was in his system for 2+ days. You know, there are poisons which kill instantly in real life, yes - cyanids and all, - but those do NOT take 2+ days to cause death... If it's slow poison (in real life) - then there is gradual weakening and long agony. If it's quick poison - victim doesn't live 2+ days after taking it... :D

P.S. Not to worry about my progress, sir; i've been planning to change skill set slightly anyways. :) Good timing for the bug to hit, in fact.

... our lifestyles, mores, institutions, patterns of interaction, values, and expectations are shaped by a cultural heritage that was formed in a time when carrying capacity exceeded the human load. (c) William R. Catton, Jr

It's not a bug, everything you described matches up with how I've mapped out poison working in the code. It's all in neogame.xml if you want to take a look at it.

Here's how I've mapped out what happens when you eat spoiled meat:
You get conditions 48 and 77 to start off with.

48 Gastroenteritis
48 hours
50% chance of progressiong to 49 and/or 65
Hidden, doesn't show up in your active condition list

49 Gastroenteritis
72 hours
Immune hit

65 Diarrhea
4 hours

77 Poisoned 1
24 hours
100% chance of progression to 78, 65, and/or 607
Hidden, doesn't show up in your active condition list

78 Poisoned 2
24 hours
70% chance of progression to 79, 65, and/or 608
Hidden, doesn't show up in your active condition list

79 Poisoned 3
24 hours
70% chance of progression to 80
Hidden, doesn't show up in your active condition list

80 Poisoned to death
Gerk!

607 Abdominal Pains
24 hours
Immune hit, Pain hit

608 Severe Abdominal Pain
24 hours
Immune hit+, Pain hit+

So you could at best have just one bout of diarrhea and abdominal pain (as you progress to Poisoned 2) 24 hours after eating the spoiled meat, and thats the end of it once you recover from those. If you're unlucky gastroenteritis will progress and you'll be stuck with that for 3 days, and you'll have a relapse of more diarrhea and worse abdominal pain for another day. At worst, you'll keel over and die after 3 days. As far as I know the Immune system bar doesn't affect any of this, it's all up to the chance percentages listed above. The Immune system bar dropping looks like it introduces infection and eventually sepsis as it decreases, conditions 183-184. Basically acts like the other bars, giving progressively bad penalties the farther it drops. Nanobots is the only thing in the code I see that removes poison.

So not a bug, but you could make an argument against the 49% chance of progressing to Poison 4 and dying from eating a piece of spoiled meat. I think that's too high myself.

I already argued in the previous post, though. It all still sounds valid and unanswered, to me... =)

Thanks for hard data. Yep, 49% chance to go belly up after a small or two pieces of spoiled meat - _unconditionally_ except nanobots, - seems too high. But then again, the most unnatural thing to me - is the _possibility_ for complete lack of sympthoms (produced by _poison_, that is, - not by gastroenteritis), while the poison itself obviously coded as _slow_ poison (as it progresses to poison 4 for about 72 hours, if i get it right). And i mean both possibility for lack of visible to player sympthoms during ALL course (72h) - very unlikely, but possible, - but also complete lack of sympthoms during a specific stage of poisoning (especially if it's stage 3, which seems what had happened to me).

My case was probably this, in XMLish terms:

Consequence 1: 48 -> nada
Consequence 2: 77 -> (24h later, branches to ALL 3 possible developments):
2.1: 65 -> nada
2.2: 607 (immune bar hit, pain bar hit - i had both, only once, long before death) -> nada
2.3: 78 -> (24h later, branches to 2 out of 3 possible developments):
2.3.1: 65 -> nada
2.3.2: 79 -> (24h later) 80 (= death).

It seems to me that this part of the code is substantially... "strange":

78 Poisoned 2
24 hours
70% chance of progression to 79, 65, and/or 608
Hidden, doesn't show up in your active condition list

79 Poisoned 3
24 hours
70% chance of progression to 80
Hidden, doesn't show up in your active condition list

80 Poisoned to death

See those bold lines? Very strange to me to see that "middle-way" poison - lelel 2 - can produce severe stomach pain and diarrea, but severe poisoned condition - level 3, - can NOT produce such sympthoms at all. I'd expect level 3 to behave even "worse" than level 2 in terms of possible sympthoms, to produce even larger immune system hit than 608's "immune hit PLUS", to cause even more diarrea and quite likely vomitting and weakness, - but none of it is there in the bold line for (79). Just 70% chance to die "all of a sudden".

May be it's not a bug technically - but in terms of game mechanics and user interaction, it surely is, to me. Am i wrong here, i wonder...

... our lifestyles, mores, institutions, patterns of interaction, values, and expectations are shaped by a cultural heritage that was formed in a time when carrying capacity exceeded the human load. (c) William R. Catton, Jr

Hey Fin,

You're right that the poison escalation isn't perfect. In fact, it's one of the earlier systems in the game, and pretty limited in functionality. I've since enhanced a few of the systems involved, which could allow for more subtlety. (E.g. I recently added condition thresholds, chained conditions, and other "hooks" for more sophisticated behavior)

I think you're making some good points (both here and in other threads), and revamping this is actually on my wishlist, too. However, I should be clear that I'm basically on the home stretch for NEO Scavenger development. As a result, many of the things on my wishlist (in fact, most of them) are not going to make the cut before launch.

If you read that linked article, you'll notice that I was discarding as much as 90% of my wishlist back in April, while targeting a mid-July release. As we can see, I've blown by that due date, and I still have work to do finishing the plot :)

The reason I mention this is that you might sense a feeling of resistance here on the forums when proposing new changes and features, and that's nothing personal, nor due to lack of merit in the idea. Rather, I'm down to choosing the last few things to add to the game, out of hundreds in the wishlist.

It all still sounds valid and unanswered, to me... =)

So, getting back to your question, the answer is that it's a legacy system and I haven't had time to re-make it. I agree it could be better, but that is also true of many things in the game (combat or bartering UI, for example). For now, I tend to agree with good ideas and put them on my wishlist. And hopefully, if there's no time in NEO Scavenger 1, I can still add them in NEO Scavenger 2!

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

Dan, i understand all that much better now that you've explained it.

Perhaps someone (not nesessarily you?) could change

79 Poisoned 3
24 hours
70% chance of progression to 80

to

79 Poisoned 3
24 hours
30% chance of progression to 80, AND 100% chance of both 65 and 608 (and possibly vomitting as well)?

Simple change, adresses two points from above (high mortality and lack of sympthoms at poison stage 3). But if not possible, i'll definitely live... Knowing i've done what i could, even if it's that little. :)

P.S. Dan, please call me "Fins", not "Fin". "Fin" means "the end". "Fins" means all those: http://thefishbowlwebsite.weebly.com/fish-fins.html . And also "Fins" means one other thing which nobody knows but me (it's an abbreviation: F.I.N.S., which is dear to my heart).

... our lifestyles, mores, institutions, patterns of interaction, values, and expectations are shaped by a cultural heritage that was formed in a time when carrying capacity exceeded the human load. (c) William R. Catton, Jr

wait neoscavenger 2? why not fix one before making another>? i mean that is really backwards.And really is lame for the people who funded you and your ideas of grandure on making #2, please fix the original before moving on. It would be the right thing to do, there is over 10 pages of bugs in the newest stable version, u plan to leave them be? thats just rude and makes people feel like they bought a Lemon of a game, with all the wondefulness about this game and the amazing job it does do, why not shine it up and make it really shine, the 18 people on my steam friends list that ask me about this game and check the updates want to buy it, but not when it still is broken. hope u can find the time to fix some of these more simple Text based issues, Thanks in advance and REALLY LOVE UR GAME.

B.C. E

Hey, no reason to panic. :) Dan is nowhere near even *deciding* what NEO Scavenger two might be. He only explained that some of the good ideas that are being suggested can't possibly be added into NEO Scavenger, and he tried to explain why. Basically in simpler words his answer was: "There are so many things I would like to add to the game and I can't. Maybe some day I will make a follow up game and use these ideas there."

He is still polishing, bugfixing and adding things to NEO Scavenger right now. All bugs found are addressed with every build to the best of his capabilities. All of us who love this game, as I see that you do, we all want a game that shines. But I think Dan wants that more than all of us, it's his baby after all. ;)

I hope this clears things up a bit! :)


NEO Scavenger: FAQ
10 Ways (not) to Die - A beginner's guide

I had the same thing happen to me, I ate some meat that was spoiled on a misclick "Misclicking is a whole nother topic in its self" and soon after had diarrhea and some abdominal pain, but never once did it say i had be poisoned, about 2 game days later after drinking bark tea and keeping my immune, hunger, hyrdo all above 90% and resting for 2 days straight i suddenly died. No warning! my poopies had stopped and the only thing in red was abdominal pain, my immune was topped off and so was my hydro. The worst part of it all was i had a nano kit, but never in my whole time playing this game had i died from stomach pain, especialy without any warning. The wiki is sooo vegue its really not helpful at all with the poisoning, and what it did recommend i did to the T. If it is not a bug as u have said above and posted the XML, which i read and looked at on my 995b version, then it is beyond messed up that u can die from that, i do not back up my saves as that really ruined the point of it being a permadeath game, but as it is in early access i understand not everything works right, but that poision system was implimented in the very start and has been so messed to this day. I would not care if it was happened in the first 10 days of game time, but it happened way later and really makes me stay away from this game until it gets some bug fixes. hope u guys can find a solution to it soon.

B.C. E

Hey loomis503,

Re: sudden death, are you sure it's the spoiled meat that killed you? Eating spoiled meat causes gastroenteritis, which is a temporary, non-fatal illness. The worst effects are lowered immune system and diarrhea (dehydration).

The symptoms you're describing (diarrhea, abdominal pains, and death) sound more like lethal poisoning. Is it possible you had some chemically contaminated water? (Note: boiling chemical water doesn't remove poison, it just removes bacteria) Also keep in mind that gastroenteritis and poison can both be true at the same time.

One thing which might be causing the confusion is that poison doesn't ever show up on the visible condition list. The symptoms do, and abdominal pains are a pretty significant red flag. When poison level 2 finishes, it can progress to poison level 3 (70% chance) with severe abdominal pains. These severe pains should be crippling (-76% to your pain meter, plus a huge drop in immune system), and a serious warning sign.

However, maybe that's not clear. And maybe that means I should make poison visible again, to remove this confusion. I was trying to make it more realistic by hiding the cause of the symptoms, and only showing the symptoms. It forced us to try and diagnose problems like we do in real life.

But that's not really consistent with the way I treat other illnesses, like Gasto, Blue Rot, etc., so it's confusing. And, as is pointed out here, the system isn't complex enough to deal with the nuances of partial cures and state-dependent progression.

I'll go revert poison to be a visible condition again, so it'll be clearer when rest and healing isn't enough to do the trick.

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

I accidentally ate a small portion of rotten meat (was trying to destroy it for some stupid reason and clicked on use instead, well done idiot), then it never went away, started having diarrhea,abdominal pains and stuff, drank all the water I could, never managed to find any antibiotics or painkillers though. And then I died. And this was on the Game Over screen.

IMAGE(http://i58.tinypic.com/qwxgg3.jpg)

What is Wendigo. Why was I transforming into that. Why did I die and then I was healthy.
What just happened.

Wendigo is unrelated to why you died, it's a condition that has to do with eating human meat. It can penalize you (you'll eventually get a text after eating a lot of folks that says you are craving for it and can't have enough of it, which hints at what is happening), but it won't kill you. A search around the forums will probably have you find more info than you ever wanted about Wendigo, if you don't mind the occasional spoiler. :)

What I assume happened is you ate that meat, got gastroenteritis from it, it didn't get cured and that basically led to death by poisoning, all going back to that bad meat you ate. Everything sounds normal and not buggy there.

The other thing that I assume looks odd and confusing is the line about the immune system being healthy. My gut feeling is that it's not a bug either, but has to do with the limitations of the system when it tries to simulate complex health issues. But since gut feelings aren't great help at technical forums, maybe someone else can explain that part better to you. ;)


NEO Scavenger: FAQ
10 Ways (not) to Die - A beginner's guide

Hm, that looks suspiciously like the old poisoning code at work. E.g. a chain of conditions that eventually kills without affecting the immune system.

v1.0 was supposed to have poison replaced with a gradual decline in immune system, so this makes me wonder if one of two things happened:

1 - You are using a pre-1.0 version.
2 - You found a way to get poisoned that wasn't covered by the changes.

I tried searching my game code for any items, encounters, or conditions that lead to #80 "died of poisoning," but I cannot find any. Any other clues?

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

Hm yeah. It's your first suggestion, I had version 0.995b, it was given to me by a friend to try the game. I bought it after a couple of days. Great job, I rarely find a game that manages to be that frustrating, challenging, addictive and fun at the same time.