Some bugs and feedback

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Some bugs and feedback

Apologies if some of these are already known, I didn't want to search too much and accidentally spoil myself on the game. I've been enjoying the process of figuring things out myself.

I did notice the thread on time suddenly passing quickly until you die though, have run into that several times.

There's a bug when crafting on a hex with a water source, if you use the known recipes the water source will come up instead of a drop of water (for example boiling water or rags), and that removes the water source from the tile. I think I've had it that the water source was lost from the tile even if I didn't actually craft using it (it comes up with the recipe, and I remove it and manually put in different water, still destroys water source).

Would be nice to have a simple way to select alternate ingredients for a known recipe.

There's another bug that comes up when you're crafting in a location with lots of items. Hitting the create button causes the game to freeze/crash. It's repeatable, tried it twice on that tile (I was creating a quality torch), rebooted and continued and went to another tile with less stuff to create it fine.

Sneaking in combat seems to be broken, unless I'm just somehow doing it wrong. Most of the time after my very first action (sneak forward, or go to cover) I'm already visible. Once in a while I might get a step closer while sneaking, not much more. Sneaking needs to be much more viable, especially if you have the hiding skill (which I did in these cases).

I'm not sure if my noise traps are working or not. Would it be possible to have a note come up indicating that a noise trap has been triggered and has alerted you? Usually I just see a mention that someone has swiped something from the area.

Is there any difference in the treatment of the "ground" and a "campsite" as far as NPCs finding and picking up stuff? The room in the Cryo Facility is described as "secure", but there's no indication on the campsite that it's any different than another campsite. How do you tell how "secure" a location is to stow your stuff so others won't find it? Is it possible to give a bonus on how well your stuff is hidden if the player has the hiding skill?

I find myself wondering if washing a cut makes a difference. It's a small thing, but is it possible to add some kind of feedback to indicate you've done something? Perhaps in the description of the wound ("cleaned" "disinfected" etc).

I can't figure out what the "alerted nearby whatevers" does when scavenging. I can't tell if it has any real effect or not.

Sometimes when scavenging the left bar (loot chance) gets bugged and shows much much lower levels than normal. It's like it's displaying over about a fifth of the usual bar width, maybe less. Save and exit, continue does not correct this. I've had this correct itself somehow though over the course of a long game.

I haven't figured out the whole hacking thing yet, but one thing I did find confusing: I managed to power up a device and log in. It just had some empty folders. The item seemed to have some TXT content in it, which I'm guessing is text files of some sort, but I couldn't find a way to access them or do anything with them. I thought I should have been able to see something about them since I was hacked into the device, but I couldn't. Will try to play with it some more, but it takes me a long while to get that far in the game, and it's easy to die first from mishap, stupidity or bug.

Really enjoying what you have here so far. Great work!

(And wow, that's a hard way to learn to keep your necklace on... Grin...)

Excellent feedback, thanks for taking the time to type all that up!
I can tell you that the scavenging "issue", at least, is probably WAI.
There's a certain radius from The Glow where scavenge yields begin to decrease until they're eventually nil.
It's there to represent the picked-over nature of the areas closer to the big city.

About the bugs you mention, some are known (turn lock, river draining). The crashing crafting is a new one I think, Dan will have to look into that.

Noise traps - they rise the camp stat called Alertness (only visible for characters with Trapping, but working on every campsite) that is responsible for your chance of waking up each turn, when something is in your hex. Higher the Alertness, greater the chance to wake up.

Ground vs. Camp - again, each campsite has a stat called Concealment (only visible for characters with Hiding skill) that is responsible for a chance of the NPC to discover your camp. Items like Tarp Shelter and Campfire lower the Concealment. Ground grid is always visible to the NPCs (I think...).

Cleaning/dressing wounds - it lowers the chance of infection resulting from a wound (especially a cut). Dressing obviously, stops bleeding. But clean wound+dirty rag can still cause the wound to go bad.

Scavenging bar - just as Caerold said, everything around DMC is picked almost clean, so there is a "poor scavenging" zone around it. The bar also drops significantly lower (and accident chance grows larger) when scavenging during twilight/nighttime. Another possible source of confusion is the fact that there are two scavenging locations with the same graphic - Storage Shed and Locked Storage Shed. Locked one has a zero loot chance unless you are using Lockpicks, Crowbar or Strong.

Alerting creatures - that means that you did a lot of noise during your search. Every creature in certain radius hears that and might come to investigate (especially nasty when at Dogmen territory to the north). Cowards like Looters or Melonheads rarely bother to check those noises.

Data Files - hovering your mouse cursor over a Data File will show it's flavor text, exactly the same way as the Newspaper articles work. If you didn't discover that yet - there is a lot of game world lore in those texts. Those Files can be later (manually) transferred into the Memory Sticks (can be bought on Market) and sold, if they have any price (some have, some haven't).

Hope that helps!


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
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Some good feedback in here! Caerold and Kaaven pretty much covered everything, so I'll just embellish a bit where I can.

Crafting crashing might be due to Flash timing out with large processing loop times. I've made a note to self to try triggering that bug in my debugger, to see if there's a way to prevent it from happening.

I think you're right about sneak being useless. It almost always alerts the target. I'll have to look into this, perhaps at the same time I look into hiding (which is also a bit underpowered, and lacks a presence in combat).

I've just added a quick line of code to message the player when a creature wakes another creature in combat due to moving. I can't distinguish whether it's the noise trap, jar of eyes, or regular awareness that allowed the alert, unfortuantely. But at least we should start seeing "Dogman's activity caused player to wake up" instead of just "Player wakes up" for no reason.

All camps can be raided, if they're seen by NPCs. Cryo is sort of a special case, since AI won't step into hexes with important encounters.

Re: washing cuts, it does make a difference. In fact, clean water, infected water, poison water, whiskey, and tannin tea each have slightly different efficacies. I deliberately chose not to expose whether they worked or not for the sake of realism, but I can see how the player might wonder if it does anything at all. I've made a note to look into messaging that better.

"Alerted nearby whatevers" does what it says, but not everything nearby cares. Also, there may not be anyone nearby to hear it. This, too, might just be messaged poorly.

As for hacking, most of the actual files are just pop-up text snippets. A few are apps, and you can use those in the encounter screens to hack other devices (if available). However, you're right that the blank screens/menus are confusing. I've made a note to look into that.

Thanks again for the detailed feedback, and hopefully I can find some time to improve these issues!

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

Thanks for the responses, appreciated. I've started to play in not-so-hardcore mode with manual save backups, much easier to explore and try things that way. (And protects from the occasional bug.)

One more possible bug:

Sometimes when I select "empty out" on a pill container lying on the ground, the pill(s) don't seem to show up anywhere. They just disappear...

Great work, looking forward to continuing adds to this.

If there are two bottles of the same kind, containing pills, emptying one automatically puts the pills into the other. So they don't disappear, are just transferred. Emptying the second/last bottle will put gathered total out.

Another issue is - why it works that way. It took me some time to discover what happens with those pills and I saw a few let's players quite confused by that too.


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
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This pill transfer bug is a mystery to me, too. I don't think I added any code to make that possible, so it's a weird kind of bug that almost seems like a feature.

Normally, though, items should just appear on the ground when emptied.

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

So... You are working on this game for so long, it now gained a mind of it's own?

In that case... All hail Skynet!


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
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It seems to be the same code that trys to put items into containers if there isn't enough place on the ground. Maybe it just overreacts on pills?

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

The inventory page is literally the most complicated thing in the game, apart from the main game loop. I added a bunch of stuff to make judgement calls on what the user was intending based on where they clicked and when. It's totally possible that I've made an AI in the process :)

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

Ok, here's a further update on my experience with Scavenger. I've got the basic survival thing down pretty well, have scouted everything south of Zom Zom's plus all around the map edges to various thicknesses, and even upgraded my eyeballs.

But I think I must have stalled out the story/quest aspect of the game somehow. I bypassed the quest to get into the city (maybe I should go hunt down the place to the NW anyway...), and got the address info at the bank. Haven't found anything else to do other than slowly explore and build up equipment. So far have only found start location, Zom Zom's and the city area. (In another playthrough I once found an isotope mine, but I haven't been able to find it again this time.)

The randomish little story encounters are great by the way. But they only happen rarely, so I'm finding the game becomes a bit flat and grindy at this stage. Oh yeah, there's one story encounter where you can try to save someone/thing from drowning - it was really annoying to read he failed with a wimpy antenna while holding a perfect tool in his hand (big long spear!) Reminded me of my kids going through their lifeguard training... just jumping in to try and save someone isn't necessarily the greatest idea (as I see you portrayed in the results of that option...).

Also I notice the game really bogs down on the tiles where I've built up a lot of stuff. Switching from view to view can take a long time to respond (like inventory to vehicle to campsite, etc). Is there any way to improve this? To give you an idea, I have one campsite with a fair bit of gear and three full sleds. Most of those sleds have two backpacks each to maximize storage.

Thanks for the great work!

You don't need to worry at this point of 'stalling out' the story. It's quite heavily worked upon aspect of the game at this moment, and/but lot of it seems to not be even in yet. Feel free to do the urn quest next time you're curious about it, but when the game will achieve first full release version you'll have plenty to do even without that quest and ability to proceed with storyline after avoiding it.

As for device issues - it would be nice if you'd, if you won't figure it out, drop step-by-step info on how and what you attempt to do, so we can point out what's wrong (unless you'd be just happy with other players simply telling you how the stuff is being done, but I'd assume the former would be better for making hacking a bit more streamlined as you seem to be not the first person who has a bit of a problem with using the feature).

Oh I did figure out how the electronic devices worked once I had the chance to play with them a bit. I think one of the things that makes it confusing is how you first hack into a laptop. The way the interface is presented it seems like you should be able to do whatever can be done within that same interaction you use to break the password (or run programs). For me, when I first did this the laptop had files but no programs, so there wasn't anything I could do in this "use" interface other than the hacking to unlock the device. Except I knew there should be some way of reading the files. The picture with file folders makes it even worse, my instinct was to click on those folders somehow to look for the files. It was really non-intuitive that I should do something completely different, treating the device as a "backpack for files" in inventory.

Hope that helps...

As Scavenger says, there is a stalling point right now in the story, and I'm working on adding more. I can't promise anywhere near as much as games like, say, Fallout or Baldur's Gate. However, I will try to provide answers to the main character's biggest mysteries, and a handful of other major encounters to role-play.

Based on what you've listed, it does sound like there are still a couple major encounters you haven't seen yet. (Southern third of the map.)

The item slow-down might not be something I can fix, as I've already optimized just about everything I can on those screens. If I see any way to speed things up, though, I will. One thing which I did recently was to hide the (irrelevant) electric charges on crafting screen, which can clog the CPU as it places each copy.

And I've made a note to myself to review the hacking system later. At the very least, maybe I just need to redo the artwork to be less confusing.

Thanks again for the feedback!

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

Hey I found the Isotope Lab again! Couldn't do anything there (I understand this is random whether it opens up further or not), but at least I found it!

Dan, hiding the electric charge should certainly help, good to hear that's coming.

Noticing a bug where tiles will sometimes show the box to indicate stuff on the ground, but when you check there isn't anything on the ground.

Sometimes tracks on a tile can't be hidden, you spend time at it but nothing happens. Seems like a bug, but maybe just too much traffic there recently?

Would be very nice to be able to see what encounters are on a tile from the main screen. Perhaps some icon or letter code, with x2 or x5 or whatever next to them as needed? Having to go into the encounter screen all the time can start become very annoying. Noticed this in particular after spamming GPS a bit, which makes the encounters a bit more randomized... so now you might find a locked shed or office tower in the middle of a field, and pretty much every tile has the encounter magnifying glass icon. So now you want to check every tile...

Would also be great to have some kind of "destroy everything" button for the ground. Of course, not near the sort button... grin... In certain areas with a lot of combat going on I pretty much have to clear out the ground space to make room for stuff to fall. I've had cases where I win a combat, but lose out on some of the stuff because there was no room on the ground for it. Also it just gets harder to look through the stuff when there's a ton there. It might be really nice if that kind of nuke destroy button deleted only the "top level stuff", not the physical contents of any container. Then you could look at a full screen, cherry pick if you like, destroy all, look again at the contents left behind, etc...

Suggestion for items - backpacks and vehicles with tracking devices added. Trackable using GPS. For when your stuff gets snatched and you want to track it down.

Just a comment on electronic devices. It really doesn't make much sense for physical batteries to trade off space with programs. It's not a big deal though, I suspect it makes the inventory management a lot more workable. I just laughed a bit when I thought about what I was doing.

Suggestion for combat with certain creatures like dogmen - "throw meat". I was thinking through the case of a swarm of dogmen suddenly attacking you, what are the options to survive? If you have athletic you might be able to outrun them. If you're just dripping with guns and ammo and attack options maybe you can thin/cripple the pack and escape (or even triumph depending on size of swarm). But that's about it. Throwing out a big chunk of meat seemed a possible way to distract and get away.

Also, a suggestion for the escape/run options. Would it make sense to have "drop vehicle and run" options? I'm thinking for example of cases where you wake up and an enemy is right close to you. Whoops, can't run because I'm holding on to this string for my sled... can't let go of it because I can't access my inventory screens right now.

That's it for now, thanks!

Having a scavenge location counter near the hex icon is an interesting idea. I've made a note of that, in case I have some time to add it. I agree that it would help prioritize searching direction.

As for the item icon showing when it shouldn't, I have also seen that, but I'm not sure yet what causes it. If I see the cause, though, I'll fix it!

Hiding tracks is only partially effective. The tracks never fully disappear. Someone with the tracking skill will nearly remove them all in 1 attempt (90% removal), and 99% in two attempts. Someone without tracking only removes 50% on the first attempt, and 75% on the second.

Also, people with tracking are more sensitive to tracks, so they see weaker tracks more easily.

For destroying everything on the ground, are you aware that you can quickly destroy items by holding the 3 key and clicking?

Tracking items with GPS is an interesting idea! I've added it to the list of potential future items.

You're right about batteries sharing space with software. It's a shortcoming of the system, unfortunately (items can only have one container slot for now).

"Throw meat" is something many people have requested, and I'm considering it. However, I'm not sure if that would actually work in real life. I mean, assuming dogmen were real, of course :) What I'm thinking is that creatures like dogmen are actually excited by hunting live prey, and they would prefer to capture and kill a living creature than they would to settle for a scrap of old meat.

"Drop vehicle" is something I plan to add, because you are not alone in having that problem :)

Thanks again for the great feedback!

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

"Having a scavenge location counter near the hex icon is an interesting idea. I've made a note of that, in case I have some time to add it. I agree that it would help prioritize searching direction."

Actually that wasn't quite what I meant. 8) I was thinking of a display somewhere on the UI to indicate what scavenge locations are available in the hex you are currently in, as you are walking around on the map. This would save a lot of going into the encounter screen over and over just to see what's available. It doesn't give you new info, just provides it in a way that makes exploring much less tedious.

"Hiding tracks is only partially effective. The tracks never fully disappear. Someone with the tracking skill will nearly remove them all in 1 attempt (90% removal), and 99% in two attempts. Someone without tracking only removes 50% on the first attempt, and 75% on the second."

Makes sense - and is it my imagination or do you have sort of a brighter track mark and a dimmer track mark for when you partially clear tracks? But in the cases I'm mentioning I can burn 4 hide tracks in a row and nothing seems to change at all.

"For destroying everything on the ground, are you aware that you can quickly destroy items by holding the 3 key and clicking?"

Yep, but it's still a lot of clicking and not much fun. It's not that unusual to run across a tile that's 50% to 75% full (loosely packed of course) of stuff, and that takes a while to get through even holding the 3 key.

You're probably right about the throw meat, sadly. I'd just like to see a bit more variety in how to get out of that particular nasty issue, at least once reasonably well equipped. Of course, get set upon by three dogmen early in the game, without Athletic, and you're pretty much done. But it IS a rogue-like after all. 8)

Thanks!

Quick tip about the scavenging locations - use shortcut keys, they tend to quicken the game by surprising amount. You enter the hex, hit E, if there is nothing there, hit Space two times and you are out, back at the map. Takes literary a second. Makes looking for scavenging-worthy places really fast and easy.


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
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No, it's not your imagination, track can look more transparent when partially removed.

Edit: At least with the Tracking skill, I assume half transparent footprints indicate tracks that are invisible to people without Tracking skill.

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

I keep getting the endless turn glitch, on the page it told me to mention it and the events that led to it so...
not the only one I've got but i still love the game, in fact i find the glitches quite fun, makes the game challenging as hell but a little too unforgiving with such glitches

1. escaped bandit (crowbar w/ strap) was weary because of retreat, suddenly burdened from weariness (it might have been hunger or thirst, bugger wouldn't leave me alone) end turn and then...

2. scavenging forest tile 2 squares southeast of cryo, end turn...

3. happens quite commonly at the worst times (when dying of thirst hypothermia starvation bleeding etc...)
at one point i pressed escape and save & quit to see if that would help, well lets put it this way, dot dot dot

Another glitch i found was that the inventory menu had nothing in it, although i found a shopping trolley two bottles and a patchwork tunic i think it's called. only happened once and can't remember what happened leading to it though.

at one point i got to the car with the sleeping bag in it, but didn't pick it up (usually you can just speed read the content then find it on the ground) but it disappeared
I understand recently a patch that had the ability to use things like phones and laptops as payment for Zom Zoms? i can only give him my shoes and only the ones I'm wearing

These glitches have plagued me since i first got the game but i still love it god dammit. the freedom you find in this game is unparallelled by any other. the feel of fallout, the style of Caravaneer and the simple unforgiving brutality of a world with the only moral consequences being chance, risk and choice.

Hi godstix! I can try to answer some of these for you.

With the endless turn glitch, I've had pretty good success just quickly going to the main menu and then hitting resume. Also you can simply hard-quit the app (hit the x top right corner sort of thing) and restart the game, you'll be back to the last place where you saved the game.

For the car with the sleeping bag, that's kind of a text adventure that you can't get back to after. So if you decided not to take the sleeping bag and left the encounter, you can't go back and get it later.

The fee at Zom Zom's seems kind of random to me, I usually wait till I have a bunch of junk with me hoping to be able to pay something I didn't care about anyway.

thanks for the info unawares, the sleeping bag thing i know about. but the glitch was that although i took the sleeping bag and the shoe they disappeared