Safe Storage Unit

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Safe Storage Unit

I realize this suggestion has been offered before, and the specific thread titled "chests" was posted almost exactly a year ago. I looked around for other recent suggestions, and I found none. Keeping in mind someone might have posted this elsewhere, I propose the "Metal Safe" idea.

Back when this idea was proposed, Daniel Fedor had been preoccupied with more important things like the major story-line and game stabilization. Now that he has had more time, with more story elements on the way, and created several new items and item modifications, I think my idea could be easily accomplished.

The problem in the "chests" thread was that items were being stolen("someone stole my fire!"), and there were no ways one could secure items. Several solutions were brought to light, such as: "Bank Vault", "Secure Hexes(where NPCs cannot pick up items)", and towns that had storage areas for you to rent. These are all wonderful ideas, and I am not doubting them, but one idea (as far as I know) has not been proposed. The "Metal Safe" item.

The "Metal Safe" item would be a regular game item. It would need a particular skill set to open, much like the phones, tablets, and laptops require the Hacking skill. A traditional Metal Safe item would need someone with a set of lock-picks, and the Lock-picking skill. There could even be a new item in the game for cracking a safe, possibly named "safe cracking tools". Alternatively, there could be an electronic safe. This safe could be opened with the Electronics skill (or maybe Hacking). Finding the item while scavenging could also yield valuable items it you posses the skill and items to open it!

To specify any possible problems with this idea and it affecting game balance, I have some particulars about it. The safe would be VERY heavy. Carrying this safe to the desired location would require an excruciating amount of effort, burdening the player and reducing their moves by half, possible down to one. The safe would also occupy a large amount of space, either occupying several units in the inventory, or by carrying it in one hand (I would have said two hands if that were possible in the game).

That about wraps up my idea. I hope everyone who is looking for "safe storage" idea and support it would in turn support this one. Thank you for reading, and Happy Scavenging!

I really like basically all the points of your suggestion. The balance is there, and I'd love to see this added at some point.

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I wouldn't allow the player to carry a safe by hand. It should require at least a sled to transport.

Why not have a safe with a mechanical AND an electronical lock? Players without both skills could sell the safe at the junk market, which automatically opens and empties the safe, and then buy it back to use it. Players with both skills could keep it's contents for themselves. To balance it out it should be possible that an NPC with lockpicking opens the mechanical lock and another NPC with is an electrician opens the other one.
A player electrician could wait for a lockpicking NPC to open one lock, then slaughter him chase him away and open the other lock himself.

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

Those are very good points Malacodor. I agree with the player needing a sled to carry the safe. I was trying to find a way to make that more balanced and your idea is pperfect. However, if other NPCs could unlock the safe, wouldn't that ruin the point? I like the part where you could use the NPC to obtain the items inside, but that would allow them to open it too. My idea of the metal or electronic safe limts usage to the player, and maybe a NPC shopkeeper or someone similar.

All things aside, I really appreciate the criticism and support that everyone has to offer. Thank you!

Now, if only player could use the safe, that'd certainly have an effect on 'realism' we're trying to achieve, would we not?
I think the lock/electronic mix is a good balance - considering how players with those trait barely scrapes by in the wasteland, it may be good balancing - after all, how many scavengers would have that perk? (maybe tons, idk). If the locks are hard enough to crack, I think it may be good enough for our purpose as well... there are no perfect lock in the world, and if there were, scavengers/junk dealer/player would never have chance at opening it up for their use anyhow...

welp, just my two cents. probably an incoherent mess.

Never take your neckless off while taking a shower

Thanks for the comment! The use of the safe was implied. So yes, the player would be using it.
Anyways, thank you for supporting the safe idea!

What I thought was that NPCs with Electrician AND Lockpicking should be extremely rare, so a dual-locked safe should be almost perfectly safe. And if a lockpicker trys to open a safe but fails at the electronic part it's up to the player's attention to see that and lock the safe again before an electrician finds that half-cracked safe.

Also, cowardly NPCs who only steal stuff while the players sleeps instead of attacking should ignore the safe as long as there are enough other items lying around, since trying to crack a safe costs time and might wake up that crazy cannibal with a dogman fur coat.

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

I see what you mean now. That would be a very good point to help balance out the idea. Thank you.

I do like the idea of having a safe to store things in.

Making it require a specific skill/set of skills to use it, however, means that less than 10% of the characters I make would have any use for such an item. Now, I understand full-well that there are a LOT of items in the game completely useless to me without a certain skill, but something as basic as 'item storage' being kept behind a Skill Wall seems a bit excessive.

Also excessive is the idea that this item would make stored items completely impervious to theft. While certainly it should be exceedingly DIFFICULT, making them completely immune to being accessed feels a little cheap. At least on the 'item' level. If one of the few 'civilized' areas had a storage locker you could rent which was guarded by armed men and therefore inaccessible to npcs, then I'd be all for such a thing as that. But on the item level, a safe is not impenetrable. The player isn't special or unique in the world in any way, unless you count the fact that there's a Wraith stalking him for some reason.

Why should this safe suddenly be impervious to all other scavengers but me? If it's just a gameplay gimmick, there are more believable ways to do it. Otherwise, just make it a pain in the ass. Unlikely-but-not-impossible to be looted.

And as for how to loot it, have different skills present different options... each with the potential to open the safe or cause it's condition to drop as a result of failure. A lockpicking character would have the easiest time, whereas someone with the mechanical skill might use their mechanical know-how to attempt to remove the door from it's hinges... at the risk of doing considerable damage to the safe in the process. Someone with strength and toughness (or strength and a crowbar) could simply brutalize the thing until it opens, causing the most damage of any other option but guaranteeing access.

Or, if you're incredibly lucky, maybe you find a scrap of paper somewhere with instructions on how to force-reset the safe's combination...

=[o]= Signature =[o] =

"Who the hell is Philip Kindred?"
The Wastelander: A Tale from the Apocalypse

Well Taubischer, I can see reason for your concern. However "less than 10% of the characters [you] make" would not make a big difference on the global scale. There are dozens of different skill set combinations. Just because the item in the game is not made for your skill set, doesn't mean it also isn't made for another person.

For instance, I have never used the "Mechanic" skill in a successful game (I tried it on my first play...it didn't turn out to well, sadly). You can use that skill to make your very own Travois! This item is extremely useful because its like a homemade sled to carry around your belongings. I know there are people out there that select that skill for the very reason of having a vehicle. That means "something as basic as 'item storage' being kept behind a Skill Wall" would not be excessive. In fact, many useful items in the game are like that.

Furthermore, the idea of "safe storage" as an item is the idea that would keep it's function balanced. The reason I made this thread is because nobody could agree on an idea of safe storage that would be balanced. In fact, I have seen multiple accounts of the "few 'civilized' areas had a storage locker you could rent which was guarded by armed men and therefore inaccessible to npcs" idea, and the replies that proved it entirely unbalanced.
Also, the point is that "on the item level, a safe is not impenetrable." You are correct. That is one of the things I am shooting for here. I am glad that Malacodor pointed that out to me, that NPCs could very well access it, and it would be extremely difficult, as no Raider or Bandit would likely have those skills together (as they are combat focused).

You also made a major flaw in your comment, completely going against your own points. "The player isn't special or unique in the world in any way..." This is entirely true. I would think that very sentence would sum up the entire game. The player is not unique or special.

You did have some good points though. I liked your ideas about the multiple-option scenario. Using different skills such as "tough" or "strong" to break open the safe, while damaging it beyond repair, would be a good idea.

Anyways, thank you for the criticism. If it weren't for you, I would have never seen the possible flaws of my idea.

Hey, hey!

Don't mistake my self-centered complaints regarding your idea as my wholehearted belief that I'm right. This was a thread to offer support/criticism of the idea, and I was merely attempting to do both. In no way do I find myself better qualified to decide what is right or wrong. I'm only capable of judging what will and will not work for me, and then extrapolating that based upon skills I've seen other people play with. As a general rule, I've seen very few people take both of the skills required to deftly crack the safe... meaning I know of very few people who could use it if that were the only way to open it.

That being said, I'm glad to see you found my suggestions to be appealing. Multiple options with multiple skills resulting in various possible outcomes seems to be in line with much of NEO Scavenger's gameplay, so it seemed like a logical compromise to make.

In fact, looking back at it, I believe that the 'condition' of the safe could, feasibly, be used to determine how difficult the NEXT attempt to break into it should be. Thus, the penalty for doing damage to the safe trying to get it open would be a safe which is MORE likely to open the next time someone tries to force the lock.

Of course, maybe at the point which it would be rendered 'broken' it would simply become an insanely heavy, completely unlockable box? Maybe someone with the right skill could repair it to a certain point, and someone with the right combination of skills could fix it up nearly good as new?

--- EDIT ---

After doing a little thinking, the idea of a safe storage locker unit with guards and the like to prevent it from being scavenged... it could actually be balanced.

You see, guards protecting anything come at a price. Safety of your items comes at a price, even in our present non-apocalyptic world. If you don't pay your bill, the storage company doesn't just grumble and groan and pile on the late fees. If you're lucky, they give you a second month... and then they auction off your locker to the highest bidder.

So the 'balance' comes from the cost... and the cost is the price of keeping those guards armed, fed, and willing to stand outside the single most dangerous building in the wasteland waiting for some idiot raider to try breaking in. And the possible risk of a band of raiders grouping up and doing exactly that.

Maybe the guards win. Maybe they don't.

After all, nothing's a guarantee...

=[o]= Signature =[o] =

"Who the hell is Philip Kindred?"
The Wastelander: A Tale from the Apocalypse

Forgive me If I made it seem as though replied to your comment aggressively. I was only trying to defend my idea, clarify it's purpose, and annihilate any thought that it is related to the "guarded bank vault" idea. It's nothing personal, I just really don't see it having any balanced, or relevant, function in the game.

I see that you tweaked your idea so that it would be balanced. You have done just that. The complete chance that your items could be lost at any time would give it a very balanced feel, considering you are in a wasteland with little civilization left. You also pointed out that it would have a cost, and if it was not paid, then you would lose your items. This adds to the balance of the idea.

However, I forgot to mention one crucial detail in my last reply. I don't think your idea would be very relevant anywhere in the game except the DMC area. Even if it was in the DMC area, there is no way raiders could get in, as it is heavily guarded. Therefore that nullifies the idea being implemented into the DMC.

If I seem harsh to you, I want to clearly state that it is nothing personal or related to you. I think you have a great idea there, and it is very realistic and balanced. I just don't think it has any place in this game. Thank you for your criticism and support.