new or crafted armor

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new or crafted armor

i know that armour and stuff will be already looted and such so I pronounce we could add stab vests in,maybe kevlar pants as they are more in supply as bikers were them and would not have been looted as it is well disguised (like stitched inside the pants),
obviously rare but to a keen survivor and a shack in the woods could get lucky. or you could add stitching as a trait so that you could sow several pants or jumpers together to make tough jumpers and such. there would be a downside as if you wore tough jumpers you would have to carry less because of weight and tough trousers would ristrict movement so lose a turn.
just a suggestion.

And oldie and I would say goodie but not particularly

I second this. It's be great to have some protection. Nerfing it would be a necessity, however. As in it's easily destroyed and hard to craft due to kevlar being next to impossible to find in the lore's depiction of the world. I guess cotton or silk could be an alternative since the first "working" bulletproof vest concept was made with a few pounds of it. Again, it would have to be horribly flimsy.

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I'm your friendly neighborhood nutcase. My spear be pointy, my stew be odd. Ask the trader guy near the DMC, I sell him meat on a regular basis.

In all honesty, I'd prefer kevlar to offer realistic protection and be nearly impossible to craft, very hard to get even with lot of money etc. Balance should touch more upon items not being under/overpowered, rarity of non-essential though should be only balanced in regards to realism as far as I am concerned. It's not that regular player would be missing much if he'd not find/get kevlar vest - kevlar is decent against bullets, but in the world of Neo Scavenger things like blades teeth are even more common and against those kevlar offers only modest protection.

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Though, to be fair - there are variants that are supposedly stabproof (thanks to reinforcement of the vest with, say, aramid) but those aren't really oh-so-wonderful protection (same as kevlar, really - even if regular vest can stop many calibers, it's not all, and even against those many, user risks stuff like broken ribs from the sheer force of the impact).

there could be dragon skin clothing and it kevlar would help against stabbs as you can get heavy duty milartary versions whith steel plates

And oldie and I would say goodie but not particularly

Just a thought here but maybe stealth armor could be added? Idk, something that is similar to wearing camoflauge and helps you blend in with certain hexes. For example, wearing forest camo in a forest, Water camo in water-based hexes, or urban camo for urban-type hexes, greatly increases your chances of not being seen, entering an encounter hidden, becoming hidden, harder to hit with range weapons, etc, etc. Maybe you could craft stealth armor using certain materials if you have the Hiding perk? Buy expensive electronic stealth armor from DMC that blends in with any surroundings using light-bending tech, much like Solid Snakes fatigues from Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns Of The Patriots.

If you love a flower, do not pick it up. For if you do, it will die and cease to be what you love. So if you love a flower, let it be. Love is about appreciation, not possesion.

Also, i was thinking of making metal armor out of scrap metal you find while looting. I dont think metal armor is very useful considering weight and the amount of force you take from getting shot but maybe metal sheilds? If you are a melee character, i really dont like just sitting behind cover or running everytime i run into a raider with a gun.... which is often. So i was thinking a shield that when shot, bruies your arm a little. Helluva lot better than a gunshot wound personally. I can deal with a bruised arm. When arm gets crippled, you drop the shield.

If you love a flower, do not pick it up. For if you do, it will die and cease to be what you love. So if you love a flower, let it be. Love is about appreciation, not possesion.

I like the idea of selfmade military-style camouflage clothes.

Using metal plates is indeed a good way to make a vest stab proof.

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

I am quite sure that both camo clothes and improvised junk-made armor was already suggested. Whether we'll get that, time will tell, though I wouldn't see why we shouldn't.

Metal plates put on the layered kevlar vest could provide decent, additional protection but given that kevlar vests made to withstand greater variety of calibers are already quite bulky, at that point anyone but generally otherwise-unburdened strong character couldn't wear such, as they simply would be too heavy to move comfortably in for longer time.

Kinda reminds me of medival knights in full plates - looked cool, was relatively protective but seldom ever you had guys wearing those do the infantry's job on the battlefield - they needed horses to move any useful distance with any speed. And if they were taken off the horse by their enemies, it was the end of them - they dropped and the weight of their armor together with their enemies made it impossible to even get up. Also, stealth was right-out. Of course, with just metal-reinforced kevlar vest it wouldn't be THAT bad, but it would be a big leap in that direction.

That's a myth, only jousting armor was that heavy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_armour#Jousting

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

Thanks for the link, I stay corrected!

I can attest form my own experience, that the correctly made "combat" plate armor is not that hard to wear (if you are in decent shape that is). The reason is not it's weight, as it can be pretty heavy (especially chain-mail), but how the weight is distributed over the body - basically it feels lighter when worn than while being carried in hand. And it is perfectly fit to fight on foot in "field" plate armor.

Also differences between medieval armors and modern ones aren't that big - basic US Interceptor body armor weights about 7.5 kg, and the version with full protection can weight up to 15 kg. That is about the same as mail hauberk with padding and not that far from 20-25 kg of plate armor. Add to that weight of weapons and ammo and it's easy to discover that medieval knight was wearing less equipment than modern soldier.

However on the topic of usefulness of heavy armor in NeoScavenger setting - those things are bulky and stiff and obviously cannot be worn all the time. They also take time to put on. Knights had servants and horses, soldiers have their trucks and helicopters (not to mention technical staff for maintenance) but single hungry hobo pushing his cart through the pathless tracts might simply not be a target audience for 10+ kg body armor.


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
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Maybe the player can make different metal armor with different weight depending on the ingredients used. For example, Sheet metal and chain-link fences create a sort of light metal armor. Being able to create armor with different weight would give the player a choice between being a tank and being a rogue-type.

If you love a flower, do not pick it up. For if you do, it will die and cease to be what you love. So if you love a flower, let it be. Love is about appreciation, not possesion.

Here is what I think on the subject:

NeoScavenger tries to stick with being as much realistic as possible, for a video game about future apocalypse. And I do not believe it is realistically possible for a individual to make a functional and effective armor, that would not be a burden and a danger to user, from a scrap, without a long time to work and proper tools / stationary workshop (at least a functional welding torch and something to substitute an anvil) as well as some metalworking skills.

Also strapping only a few iron plates to one's clothes and hoping they will somehow protect you is not far from this well known movie trope where guy is shot to the chest but survives thanks to bible/cigarette box in his back-pocket stopping the bullet - theoretically can happen, to a most lucky guy in town, but I would not call this armor :D.

And if you are lucky enough to have a few real metal-heads friends, you should know that leather+chains outfits are far from being stealthy :D


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
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Well metal armor was just a thought but i do understand how stupid it would be. Even if you did expertly craft a set of plate armor, the force of getting shot is going to bruise the hell out of you. Plus, there is armor piercing and hollow point ammo in the game anyway so you are screwed if the enemy has the ammo to match your armor. I just want something that reduces damage bc it takes like 5 days to recover from blood loss. XP

If you love a flower, do not pick it up. For if you do, it will die and cease to be what you love. So if you love a flower, let it be. Love is about appreciation, not possesion.

Why not just start with the obvious- making leather and cloth armor out of hides and sleeping bags?

You could put together a gambeson out of some flannel sleeping bags, and it could help you against thrown stones and monkey wrenches, or a leather vest/hat/shinguards/whatever out of hides (maybe treated somehow) for cut resistance. You could even wear both of them but of course it would be very hot.

You don't actually have to make those, as I am pretty sure there are a lot of leather coats/motorcycle jackets as well as padded/quilted winter jackets lying around out there already, especially in a place with relatively cold winters, like Michigan. They just need to be added to the game.


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
DeviantArt Gallery of MoD Sprites

Even jeans, shirts and hoodies offer some basic protection. Attacks from behind can hit the backpack and shopping carts can be used as cover from ranged attacks. The biggest problem is to convince Dan to implement armor values for items.

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

Personally, as armor, I wouldn't mind the option of using a trash can lid, a riot shield, a modified door, or even my backpack for a shield option. Parrying is one of the best options for protection imo, so anything that encourages more chances to parry would be worth having, imo, moreso if it can give you the chance to counterattack with a stun to the head or whatnot.

ww2 bomber crew flak jackets where made of layers of cotton with steel plates woven betwen them

Armor is a challenging subject. all of the high tech soft armors available today are subject to degradation, and have a limited useful life. Layered silk and nylon may last longer, but are less effective, heavier and also eventually degrade.

Hard armors such as metal plates are relatively simple to make and availability is difficult to argue against, and even scrap plastic armors would be effective against blunt force trauma and many cutting weapons. Without a doubt, in a post apocalyptic setting, armors would be used, so I think it's necessarily something to consider. Motorcycle helmets, football gear, hard hats, etc. are all extremely common. Even stone age man made bone, shell, and wood armors as well as woven armor. Modern man would have plastic, scrap metal and fabric options.

yes but how long was the character asleep coulda been 2001 for all we know
i think

And oldie and I would say goodie but not particularly

A helmet could be very nice. There's already a head slot. Maybe I've just been unlucky, but I tend to die shortly after receiving a concussion. A simple plastic hardhat would be easy enough to wear, and while it wouldn't be 100 percent, could cut back on the chance of getting concussed.

Far as head slot goes, how much body heat goes out through your head? A simple stocking cap could go a long ways form freezing to death.

Crafting metal armor can use the melee skill as melee 'has' the knowledge of blacksmithing items?

lol wat?

Few months ago I suggested something similar to Dan
Main idea was 2 lines of armor
1.Melee- basic melee armor was biker gear (jacket, pants, helmet, etc.), while advanced armor was police riot gear (even provides some protection against ranged attacks). Torso protection occupies jacket slot.
2.Ballistic- basic armor is police level 3A soft armor, while advanced armor was military level 4 armor with ceramic plates (deterioates fast, but replacament plates can be found at military bases). Vests occupies jacket slot

Also as additional option was level 2 concealed vest that takes place of 2 T-shirts (so you can't wear 2 concealed vests), that provides protection against very basic ammo. Concealed vest could be combined with melee and ballistic armors.

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Children's backpack full of bullets? I see nothing wrong in that.

Also update on ballistic armor gear vs. arrows/bolts
They aren't very effective against them
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nLRymWv-CA
(that was soft 3A level armor, maybe hard ceramic plates in level 4 armor could provide some minor defense)

On the other hand Riot gear should defend vital body parts from most arrows/bolts, so I think those should be classified as ranged weapons that does melee type damage
makes sense- you're basically launching mini-spears at your enemy

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Children's backpack full of bullets? I see nothing wrong in that.

Another addition to ballistic armor
I think in the game where nano-medkits are fairly often found, armor plates should be more advanced
Instead of present ceramic plates, plates similar to Kryron should be standard of personal defense
(google "Kryron armor plates"- it is quite promising material, it is lighter and protects better against projectiles)
Basically some sort of carbon nanotube armor

Or maybe such nano-plates could be used as replacement/upgrade for standard issue vests
Basically acquire standard military plate carrier and few nano-plates, "craft" them together and, voila, you have advanced armor at your disposal

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Children's backpack full of bullets? I see nothing wrong in that.

Wearing skin clothes should grant basic protection

Greedy Bastard