First fight is too soon

19 posts / 0 new
Last post
First fight is too soon

I started playing a week ago, but found the game too hard. It forces me into a fight too soon after starting, and tere is no way of winning it.

Is there anything I'm missing? Covering my tracks and hidings does not work.

Try to run away. And check this:

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

I tried running away, the game will not let me most of the time, an I end up wounded and dying.

I'm here because I tried all the options already. Even fighting them.

Sometimes it is an inmaterial creature I can't even hurt.

Combat is ment to be hard try taking the athletic skill that should give you a new option that lets you run really fast away from enemys.

Official Trained Dogman

FYI, there's actually a change going into 0.974 that should make fleeing a bit easier. Currently, running away when outnumbered is almost guaranteed to fail, and hard when one-on-one. The new change should make escape slightly easier, so running from groups is a struggle, but succeeds more often than fails.

Athletic makes it even easier to escape (both in the current version and 0.974).

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

Don't take off your necklace and no immaterial creature will attack you.

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

Oh, so that was the reason... Thanks for telling me. Do you know why the necklace does that?

No one really knows what it is, or why it does what it does. For now, keep the amulet/talisman close at all times. When Dan gets around to putting in more plots and such, we will probably get our answer then.

And the thing with the character name, in the wrist. Do I keep that too?

Information regarding your characters background is always good to keep at hand, especially when suffering from amnesia ;)

Save that for an encounter, so people can learn your story. *Hint Hint*

This has been my experience.

I played a few games of this about two months ago when I funded it, and I ended up somehow having a map with NO ENEMIES, and I actually got to progress to what I assume is the extent of the game right now (the shop and restaurant in the city). Had a great time.

I come back and I believe I'm on my 8th or 9th attempt so far I have been unable to survive a single encounter or find a bedroll or pants before freezing to death. Every game goes like this: Strong, Tough, Trapping, Hiding, Insomniac/Athletic. Escape the lab, try to scavenge a few cities, encounter multiple Hunters. Flee, flee, flee, possibly get away, and then be encountered again after running out of moves. I'm hiding myself and my tracks before every scavenge, scavenging at the beginning of the turn, and generally making every good gameplay decision I can fathom, and by the 3rd or 4th encounter with the same bandits I'll trip and they massacre me. Being repeatedly crushed by the RNG is not very enjoyable. In addition, so far I have not seen the opportunity to Surrender appear at all, and when hiding myself/tracks within 3 squares of my last encountered enemy, I have -never- seen them do anything but beeline for my position and spot me. I am doing something wrong?

My personal suggestion would be a brief 'tutorial' segment where the player only encounters solo bandits that accept surrender, or no monsters at all, until they find their first cache of items that might let them survive the night, or a scripted city that always spawns near the cryo lab with some starter gear (bedroll, lighter, jeans, shoes, small weapon). One of this game's greatest strengths is its universal gameplay systems, but a brand new player is so frail that it can feel like bashing your head against the wall.

No, I refuse to have handholding if you die you shall die LIKE A MAN.

Official Trained Dogman

Use your Hiding skill while scavenging. Don't use Strong or a crowbar if it had an impact on the sneak bar.

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

Basically, what Malacodor said - learn how scavenging exactly works and avoid making too much noise while doing it. Using skills and tools is optional so you don't have to muscle your way into every building on the map. Also remember that Loot bar shows only what your chance to find anything is, it does not affect the quality or number of found items - you can have one red bar and still find a ton of great items.

And try utilizing your skills to their full extent:
- Your build has Trapping in it - make the Squirrel Snare and use it with Hiding (but without Strong) - it makes searching the woods relatively safe and yields decent amounts of food and pelts.

- Using Strong and Hiding makes loot stay the same but safety higher - utilize this in forest shacks, they will have biggest yields and almost 100% safety with that combination.

- If you don't want to/don't know how to fight yet, exchange Tough for Lockpicking. Basic lockpicking tools are easy to make (8x small parts + skill) and, when combined with Hiding give a nice, safe way to search the ruins, similar to the way snares work in woods.

So the end line here is: don't get greedy, it's better to be safe than sorry so don't charge door kicking and crowbar flailing into every building you see :D

<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
DeviantArt Gallery of MoD Sprites

Learn from your mistakes and don't be afraid of failure. It may take time and you will fail a lot, but eventually, you'll win big. It's a big wasteland out there, remember, look out for number one, and don't step in number two.
Also, when you go one on on with an enemy, Dodge or parry till you see that they're recovering then give them a thrashing. Take strong and tough and always try to get them on the ground without a tackle. Then, move in for the kill. Don't stop till they die or surrender.

Proud member of the International Federation of Looters, Bandits, and Raiders. "Divided, we stand. Together, you better have athletic skill!"

With Crowbar, will travel

I would recommend you experiment with some of your options in the beginning encounter.

Anyone with Strong and Trapping has no excuse if they allow themselves to freeze to death during the early game (Or even into the very, very late game).

*Waits patiently for the addition of Carroltron*

Thanks for the detailed feedback, Kasonic. This is useful insight into what could be a major issue for newcomers to the game and/or a current balance issue. (For reference, a buddy of mine recently tried NEO Scavenger for the first time and had similar feedback.)

All of the advice Malacodor and Kaaven offer is valid, so in the meantime, that might be the best way to proceed. However, those are fairly advanced techniques developed through lots of experience, and new players have no way of knowing that.

Your point about your first playthrough with no enemies is interesting. Particularly, that you had a great time with it. It's possible the map has become much more crowded in recent builds, and there's a lot more combat going on. My intention has always been for NEO Scavenger to focus less on combat than traditional RPGs (hence why combat is usually punishing, instead of something players seek out and grind for XP).

In the next build, I'd like to see if I can tone down the creature spawns a bit, and replace them with other challenges. In addition to creatures encountered during scavenging, the game has a "create tension" method that gets called periodically. The idea was for it to cause tension in the game so it never gets boring (e.g. going from good-to-better-to-best is boring, going from good-to-bad-to-better-to-worse-to-best is satisfying and exciting).

Unfortunately, the only thing it can do right now is spawn creatures nearby. Creatures cause tension, sure, but they can overwhelm a game if overused. "Create tension" should probably do other things, too, like spawn random encounters, cause a trip or fall, infect the player with the flu, etc. Having that variety should keep things interesting without overpopulating the world in creatures that hunt the player.

Apart from that, there might also be too steep a curve or too much reliance on RNG in the first few turns. Hypothermia has become a lot more common recently, and the early game can be frustrating (or near impossible) on some playthroughs. I need to work on this a bit such that no playthrough is impossible. Challenge is ok, but the player should never be subjected to a string of events or random numbers that they cannot survive.

Put another way, players should die because of mistakes they've made, not bad luck.

So to recap, there's some good advice above for more successful play, but I also have some tweaking to do so the game is more fair.

Thanks again for the insight!

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

I think what would help the new players is to switch most common enemies around Cryo Facility. Right now it's a hunting grounds for Raiders, and those guys are simply to tough to kill for most, even more experienced, players. If that area was inhabited by Looters instead, new players, or guys testing new, unfamiliar skill-builds, would have easier time starting. Also, that would make availability of basic clothes/weapons less of an issue, as it is not THAT hard to take that stuff from Looters.

Also, I do not agree that the map is too crowded. It is very empty, with barely anyone on it (also, roaming creatures can be seen by player from afar and avoided). Problem is, in my opinion with the numbers of enemies spawned by looting. They come with groups of two or three, more often than not and subsequent failures at scavenging can suddenly pump up local population of baddies up to a big numbers. It is entirely possible to walk around using Strong + Crowbar combo on low-safety places and "produce enemies" on purpose.

Maybe a random roll that would check if the location is inhabited at all? Like, 25% chance there is someone home, if there's no one then even if player failed safety check, no creature will emerge regardless. Also, places with no inhabitants have less loot in general (-50%) - all that hidden, not player-dependent.

<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
DeviantArt Gallery of MoD Sprites