[0.973b] Bugs and issues

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[0.973b] Bugs and issues

This time no big bugs so far, only a few minor things:

- Binoculars can be combined with Medium Thread to get Binoculars w/string but reverse-crafting them gives 2xHalf a pairs of binoculars, 5x small parts and 3x small thread

- Can reverse-craft Sharpened Spear back into raw piece of wood

- Slings sometimes are created already loaded with Stones

<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
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Minor bug: A bandit with a shotgun/w strap will say on the combat screen Rifle/w strap

Official Trained Dogman

-It seems when you save (At least I think that's it, I just noticed it after saving in the cryo facility and reloading) in a camp you maintain your camp buffs even after leaving.

-Also, attempting to craft a greenwood bow results in a 100% compound bow with strap. (I recall seeing ONLY strapped compound bows in my current game)

-And this might just be me being stupid, but crude piercing arrows don't seem to work as intended either (Can't craft them).

-Also the entire recipe list seems to have broken in my game (Can see it, but can't "use" it).

Thanks for starting an 0.973 bug list! I'll get started on these, as well as checking any 0.972 bugs I've missed.

@Nickboom, that could be the item identification feature in action. Did you have the ranged skill?

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

Yes I had the ranged skill also this was in the combat screen, not the item screen.

Official Trained Dogman

I had a similar issue: guy shot me with a pistol but the status window said I was grazed by .308 round. Don't remember specifics but I think I had Ranged as well.

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I don't want to sound whiny, especially when finding a big score while scavenging but isn't it a bit too much (for a single search)?


I would not mind finding a box of bullets from time to time, that would be cool, but five different types, worth $900 total, in the same spot seems bit weird and unbalanced. In test version it was almost impossible to find ammo while now such loads happen rather often, so I'm assuming it's some sort of bug.

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Oof, I bet that's a typo. I think the table was supposed to generate 2-7 rounds of ammunition, not 2-7 stacks :)

Enjoy the shooting spree while it lasts!

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

@Nickboom and Kaaven, one other thing occurred to me about the bugs you saw on the battle screen. It's possible the battle UI is using the raider's character sheet to determine if the weapon is identified, instead of the player's. I'm looking into that now.

As for the .308 round coming from a pistol, is it possible it was a .38 round and you misread it? The revolver uses .38 ammunition.

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

@Kaaven You found bullets?! :O .. Only bullets I've found so far was on raiders, or when I found a weapon.
May one ask if you remember where/what you scavenged to find bullets?

Tunic/Dogman cloak bug, you can't access hoodie pocket while wearing a tunic/cloak.

The newest version is full of bullets, those on the picture were in random shack in the woods.

Also, not being able to reach pocket is not a bug it is made to be this way (although it makes less sense with Dogman Coat, since it does not cover whole torso like the Patchwork Tunic does).

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I have problems with crafting spears. Whenever a spear is displayed in the lower right crafting grid every action causes a freeze of 5-10 seconds. Installing the newest flash player didn't help. I didn't have any problems with other recipes, yet, only with spears. I tried broad, hardened and sharpened spear. When I put the first item into the upper right crafting grid, there's no problem. But as soon as one of the spear recipes is completed there's a freeze before the spear is displayed.
For example, if I move the following items to the top right grid:
large branch - no problem
glass shard - freeze, then sharpened spear is displayed
dirty rag - no freeze, glass shiv displayed
click on arrow to switch outcome - freeze, then sharpened spear is displayed
add or remove item that doesn't change anything - freeze (probably due to recalculation of the recipe outcome)
move item from one spot to another inside the left grid - no freeze (probably because there's no recalculation)

Another problem with broad spear: The recipe says it requires a small rigid sharp edge with point and a sharp edge. But in fact the sharp edge isn't needed, since the small rigid sharp edge with point already fulfills this requirement.

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

It makes no sense for manually extinguished fires to produce ash at less than 100% condition. This has caused my cured meat to lose value more than once. If the condition of the ash can't be fixed, at least prevent it from having an impact on the final product. Realistically, only the condition of the raw meat should have any impact on crafting cooked or cured meat.

(I was burning plastic bags/rags in my fire and then extinguishing them to use the ash to cure meat).

- Disassembling box carts yields 6 medium threads instead of 6 small threads.
- Crafting box carts and shopping carts doesn't work, it just kills the ingredients.
- Shopping carts are too big for the crafting grids.

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

This may or may not be a bug. I stumbled across around 5 nanobot med kits in around 3 days. All very close to cryo. Most had 2 charges. I haven't had to use them because I am a crazy good medic, but it seems like the bandits are really good at finding them.

Re: spear crafting, I looked into it, and there was definitely some sloppy code in there. I found quite a few areas to optimize, and I think I've got the hitching reduced. I've been meaning to do an optimization pass at some point, and your post was a good reminder. There's probably room for more, but you'll have to let me know if the next version is an improvement!

Re: ashes and cured meat, I agree. This is somewhat intertwined with the degraded water issue (i.e. water can be in a treasure with <100% condition, making it less valuable and tripping up the value-sorting in quick recipes). I've come up with a tweak that treats certain items specially, as if they don't degrade, in cases like crafting and weathered treasures.

Namely, objects that only degrade when consumed are treated as non-degrading, as are items that don't degrade at all. As a result, water and ashes, both as crafting and treasure yields, should always be 100% now. And as a result, cured meat should also be produced equal to the raw meat it came from. Plus, this should hopefully keep pure water from being chosen before dirty water in quick recipes. We'll see if it produces any weird side-effects!

Re: box carts and shopping carts, I had to adjust the artwork for those items to be < 110 pixels high. They should fit in crafting in the next build, and recipes should work again.

Re: using wrenches as arrow shafts, that's a good point. I may have to change the shaft requirements to be flexible (or maybe something new, like "not heavy"), which would rule out crowbars and wrenches.

Thanks for the feedback!

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

Thanks for the feedback, too! I have to say it's really satisfying to see that you recognize my (and other's) feedback and that it's actually useful. I wish I could say this about other developers, too. ;-)

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

I have to agree, it's really nice to get feedback on our feedback. That encourages me to leave more.

Apparently arrows are only craftable with 3+ small recipe papers? Is there a reason I can't just rip up a newspaper and use that? The recipes have been much rarer in my game than actual scraps of newspaper (which I suppose don't have the small property). I'd suggest removing the "small" limitation on arrow crafting's "small, flexible sheet" ingredient. Is there a flexible sheet in game that couldn't be ripped/cut up into smaller pieces easily? The reasoning isn't holding up for me.

On that note, any recipe that requires more than 2 of the same item is REALLY unlikely to be found through natural experimentation. I'd avoid that if possible, since I doubt I'm the only one who throws 2 of everything into the crafting window in search of useful recipes. Things like including 4 wheels for a cart can be overlooked, since that seems more natural.

I love that I can rip up clothes for rags *and strings*. Getting 5 stacks of each for each extra pair of jeans is way easier than searching for them one at a time. A+

In the crafting above, the stacks of strings and rags assign a percentage to the top output item based on the
condition of the input. However, the remaining 4 items in the stack are at full condition. I don't have a problem with this (although I'd prefer 100% condition on all 5+5), just wasn't sure if it was intended.

I love LOVE the new use for strings with binoculars and crowbars and the like. Very natural and useful. A+++

The spear options seem very useful, especially with the new encounter ranges. Makes combat much more engaging and strategic. I enjoy keeping a loaded sling in my pocket when mucking around in open plains, then switching to a melee weapon when I search a forest tile.

I lost my last game when I forgot to switch my crowbar into my hands before scavenging a cabin. I ended up vicimized by a range-7 shotgun-sporting raider and 2 of his 0-range melee friends to pin me down. I couldn't get to inventory and was stuck unarmed(!) -- more fool me. Those are the kinds of lessons I want to learn!

My pleasure! You guys often see things I don't, so I'm happy to have folks share their thoughts. The game only gets better as a result!

Re: arrow crafting, it might be best to make the newspaper craftable into smaller recipe-like items. That way, there's a ready supply of small, flexible sheets. Removing the "small" might make things like the plastic sled or tarp valid.

Re: 2x the same item being hard to find, can you think of any examples? Most of the recipes with 2+ of the same item that come to mind involve small parts or strings, and I think those are both common enough to avoid problems. One example is the fur gloves and tunic, though many players seem to call that out as something they take pride in finishing. Are there any that are difficult?

Re: stacks and conditions, good catch! I'll make a note of that for fixing.

And I'm glad that combat is feeling rich and tactical! Your raider-with-a-shotgun encounter reminds me a bit of Robocop, when they hold down Murphy to shoot him :)

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

I was thinking specifically of the arrow recipe again. I heard that required 3 small flexible sheets? 3 recipes? --> I have yet to find even one recipe in my latest playthrough, so I can't confirm that yet, I was just going off the forum post. You're right, I can't think of anything else aside from parts/string/medium string (The sticks for a shelter are natural enough).

Might be nice to be able to use string rather than straps to hang a rifle off my shoulder, though.

I'm cool with the fur tunics and such being a challenge -- I think of them the same way.

I have a weird bug with equipping boots:
If I wear one boot it goes below the character's silhouette, if I wear both they go over the same slot.

- single boot goes under the silhouette -
- as you can notice in this image, both boots are in the left slot ( there's no "barefoot" status ) -

This happens both in a save from the previous test version and with a fresh character.

Edit: Still noticing some item overlapping in the inventory


Universitarian Nerd and Java Programmer

Actually I get this bug too, and its annoying cause I'd like to know when I'm about to walk holes in my boots.


You've opened the door to your car.
Here there be lions.

Still can't get quick-recipes to work, and got a random crash: can't really tell if it was caused by anything in particular.


Universitarian Nerd and Java Programmer

When crafting a Compound Bow with Strap, the skill Botany is consumed and lost forever.


You've opened the door to your car.
Here there be lions.

@evil_genius, I've heard a few reports of this boot bug, but I can't seem to make it happen. I've tried wearing boots in different combinations and orders, as well as saving and loading in each state. Although, now that I think of it, I don't think I tried saving with just one boot on, and then adding another.

In any case, if there's a trigger for the boot bug, let me know!

@Neowildstar, I'll check into that bow bug.

Thanks for the heads-up!

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

I actually found out that this particular bug is a bit random: after some time I noticed the boot bug, I checked the inventory and both boots were displayed correctly; then I unequipped/re-equipped them and the bug appeared again.
Can't think of any possible cause right now.


Universitarian Nerd and Java Programmer

Was that supposed to happen?


Also, is it only me or do raiders multiply on their first turn? Because it seems that whenever I meet one during scavenging, after my first move another one appears.

<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
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Nope. That's not supposed to happen. Though a hidden apartment complex sounds kinda mysterious :)

The combat bug you mention is actually something I just found a fix for. There's a bug in the battle screen that only ever shows the first creature after a scavenging encounter. It should be working in the next build!

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

Patchwork hide tunic should be a medium fire fuel instead of a kindling.

Edit: Finally found a use for the strange mechanical doll, it counts as a small or medium, flexible, non-food object (can be used for rough splints).

Edit 2: After exploring exam room 17 the old spot on the ground in the same hex shows full sleep and concealment bars. After exchanging both campsites twice the bars look normal again.

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

First, after not playing for so long (due to the widescreen change) I'm LOVING seeing so many of our suggestions implemented in the latest build, Dan. It really feels like a MUCH richer game now, especially with all the crafting options (I know the big crafting system change was a lot of work, but it was definitely worth it, IMO).

To some minor bugs:

I had the boot bug when I first started (equipped both left and right boots onto the same foot!) but after saving and quitting, I reloaded and noticed the boots were now on the correct feet. Removing and putting them back on seemed fine, so no idea what caused it in the first place that quitting and restoring fixed!

Glass shiv or glass shard + dead squirrel won't create small raw meat. Glass shivs do work with the Trapping skill (meat + hide) but not without the skill. The multitool, cleaver and broken bottle work fine (meat but no hide, as it should be) without the skill.

Glass shard + dead squirrel = glass shiv! This should only work with a small pelt, not the whole dead squirrel, right?

I found a plastic sled, yay! But I should be able to attach a strap, right? The wiki says it needs x2 medium thread to add a "strap", but that doesn't work; crafting just tries to break down the thread, not combine with the sled. A rather annoying bug, since it makes the sled pretty useless (it slows movement without a strap).

I know lighter fluid was removed, but how do I see how many charges disposable lighters now contain? I can't see it in the "tooltips" or anywhere else. I presume I'm just not looking in the right place now?

I think there was an error in the compound bow recipe (no branch required?!)... but I can't re-check because I just reloaded my game and discovered my "known recipes" list was completely different and random! I had recipes for a rifle with sling, meat from a large corpse, broad spear, and several others that I've never attempted to craft or found recipes for! And some I HAD found (like the bow) was now missing from the list. Huh?!

Agree on the above "ashes and some other resources should not change condition" comments and solutions, too (I also really wish handfuls of ashes stacked, at least in piles of maybe 3?).

Not really a bug, but...

PLEEEEASE make bottles change their colour depending on what's in them! It's not just confusing but a real immersion-breaker for me to see a cola bottle fill with cola when I put water in it. It also makes the game look unpolished, when so much of it looks wonderful. You can use the graphics I made (in another thread) if it saves some work or your own, but please, please consider this! :)

My Mods:SaveMan|Fishing|Shouldered|Bottles

Lighter works same way as other items do, it degrades after use, and each time you use it it looses 1% of its condition. So fresh 100% lighter can be used hundred times (like full lighter in old days). System rounds up it seems, so a 1.2% lighter still has two uses.

Bow recipe is indeed broken, giving a compound bow where a greenwood bow should be made (real compound bow is non-craftable, olt time sports weapon).

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Thanks for the lighter info. A shame the original way of indicating ("charges") wasn't kept, as it was a lot more intuitive to understand, but at least now I know how they work in new builds!

I haven't built a bow nor found a non-craftable one yet, but what you describe is indeed what I thought I saw before my recipes decided to delete themselves randomly and be replaced with new ones!!!

Either a bug or random glitch I just got: first Dogman encounter, I had Hacking, Mechanic and Melee. Melee choice says "hack the door to stay shut" (same as Hacking)!

Also, I forgot to mention... I know the "can't access hoodie pockets under hide tunic" is a known bug that's proving difficult to solve. I think it's actually okay to make the pocket inaccessible under a coat such as the hide tunic (or potentially future clothing of that same "layer", such as a theoretical poncho). The only thing needed is a way to "grey out" or "cross out" that pocket while the tunic is over your hoodie, so the player knows they can't access that pocket right now. Right now, it's confusing (pocket just won't "click") but if - for example - it had a big red X through it, the player could figure out what was going on and take the tunic off to access it. Just a thought!

My Mods:SaveMan|Fishing|Shouldered|Bottles

To craft a sled with straps click on the small arrow on the top right of the crafting output grid.

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

I found a plastic sled, yay! But I should be able to attach a strap, right? The wiki says it needs x2 medium thread to add a "strap", but that doesn't work; crafting just tries to break down the thread, not combine with the sled. A rather annoying bug, since it makes the sled pretty useless (it slows movement without a strap).

That sounds like you dont know about the little arrow thing that pops up when theres more then one option (also for what ever reason disassembling string is always the first choice)

Official Trained Dogman

Thanks! Found it and confirmed working.

The buttons for that and the "more items to craft with" really should be bigger, IMO. They can be very hard to see/click on, especially in a 800x450 window (due to the widescreen-only resolution issue).

(also, shouldn't "build" options appear before "deconstruct" options in this case, though?)

My Mods:SaveMan|Fishing|Shouldered|Bottles

Because for some reason I can't seem to edit the previous post, here's the link to my "bottles show what's actually in them" art examples. I'm sure Dan or someone else could do better, but I'd REALLY like to see this fixed.

My Mods:SaveMan|Fishing|Shouldered|Bottles

1. Shoes double up on the same foot sometimes, kinda weird , see last pic link.
2. Weird scavenge with crowbar issue. Pic explains all.
3. Pills in bottles dont show correct $ value unless the container is held in the hand where the pills individual value can be validated. Otherwise if you sell a bottle with pills you only get bottle value (empty). Bugged pill containers show "full".
4. Emptying said unvalued bottles with pills yeilds empty bottle and no pills.
Pill bug AND shoe bug (coincidentally): http://postimg.org/image/6sx0cg1f5/
5. No crafting recipes work when clicked on. They initial work and then stop working.
6. Purified water doesnt always have the same $6 value. Hard to tell when water is purified in containers. Seemed similar to pill issue except value checks out the same as the water unit.

You only see one shoe, but there are two on the same foot. A right shoe and a left shoe.

Not sure if its a bug or not, but my status shows me in pain, but the doctors can't find anything wrong with me. My status is also completely green filled too. So I don't know why I'm in pain when nothing is wrong with me?


You've opened the door to your car.
Here there be lions.

That's probably the bug which makes a status permanent when saving in the cryolab, I have the same problem.

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

A small bug that I managed to come upon:

During a random encounter where a father of some homeless family asks character for a weapon, I choose to sell them a cleaver for some food. He gave me a soup can with cakes in it and the soup itself as separate item. Should be other way around.

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That's hilarious! :)

A can of cakes?

My Mods:SaveMan|Fishing|Shouldered|Bottles

Happened to me, too. And I didn't even have a meat cleaver.

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

Sorry if this isnt the current thread for bugs.

Was playing earlier today and might have encountered a bug. I had just saved on the cryo facility, still early in the game. I moved up to a forrest tile and scavenged for the hell of it. figured a few mushrooms wouldn't hurt. I found a .45 laying on the ground, what luck as i had just found a good amount of ammo. Anyway, a few bandits came along during the forest scavenge.

Heres where the bug comes along. I armed the pistol, put in .45 jhp, and decided to see if having a gun would effect the demand surrender option. I remember being able to attack and do the flurry ranged attack. I demanded surrender, then threatened. by this point he was 3 things away and decided to fire. I then noticed that between demanding surrender and threatening him, my ability to attack disappeared. I skipped a turn and still couldn't attack. I dodged and still couldn't attack. I died trying to retreat.

I think you need a minimum distance to attack with ranged weapons.

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

That's very possible but I'd call it a thing needing balancing then. Rifles I can understand but pistols can be comfortably used even at nearly point blank range.

It would also be pretty awesome if it didnt work because it was dirty from being on the ground for who knows how long.

@IkeyJone, you have the correct place. I agree, that situation sounds a bit fishy to me, too. Though, there are a few legitimate cases that might lead to that outcome. The possibilities that come to mind:

1 - Did you access the inventory prior to trying an attack? Inventory or condition screen access (reloading the gun, checking a wound) prevents an attack in the same round.
2 - Was the gun still loaded? You mentioned being able to attack and flurry attack, which sounds like it would have used at least 4 rounds (1 + 3).
3 - Did you still have the weapon in hand when you tried to attack? E.g. did your arm become crippled or similar causing the weapon to drop?

There isn't actually a minimum range on any gun right now, as I feel wrestling over a loaded gun can still end up with a shot person. Let me know if you can recall if any of the above situations applied, and thanks for the heads-up!

Re: cakes in a can, that's a typo in the treasure order. I think it's fixed now!

Re: stuck stats, this is also a bug in 0.973, as Malacodor describes. Should be fixed in 0.974.

@UltimaVirus, some of those bugs I can't explain nor reproduce. However, the quick recipe bug you mention might have something to do with them (it causes a null pointer error that can cascade into other errors). I should have a fix for that in 0.974. The shoe bug will be fixed, too.

The pill bottle value is something I'm not yet sure how to fix. When the mouse rolls over an unidentified item, the game checks for appropriate skills to identify it. This works when rolling over pills, but when rolling over a container, the game sees the container as already identified, so doesn't do anything. And to complicate matters, some containers can contain many items, so it's not safe to just identify everything inside (e.g. backpacks). I could check every item inside whenever the player rolls over a container, but I worry about performance issues if that code gets hit a lot. I might have to do it anyway, though.

@Banjo, thanks. Glad to hear you're enjoying the changes! I think I've got fixes for most of the bugs you've mentioned, and the folks here have helped you find the way to choose from multiple crafting outputs.

As for the different-colored bottles, that's a tricky problem. I really like the idea, and I too would like to see that happen. However, I'm not sure how to make it work without a lot of special-case code and art. It seems like it would need a special mapping table for assigning images to liquid color, and then a subclassed bottle item to switch based on contents. It's doable, but that amount of effort might be best applied to some higher priority items first (e.g. more electrician, hacking, mechanic activities). I like the idea, though!

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

Just a loose idea about how to solve identifying stuff works (and don't know if it's doable) but how about that:

- simply make knowledge of a skill turn unidentified instances of relevant items off. So for medic characters all pills in game are identified, ranged dude will know every bullet in an instant.

That would remove identification mechanic completely, making game check just once at the beginning: if player has the right skill, replace all unidentified instances of said item form all treasures with identified ones, if not, both kinds exist as normal (so that unskilled character can still buy identified berries and stuff).

Could this work?

<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
DeviantArt Gallery of MoD Sprites

The weird thing is about the value bug is that it USED to work just fine. If you had a pill worth $5 in a $1 container , the container registered as $6 without you having to go through additional trouble of putting it in your hand and identifying the value of the pill individually. This is an entirely new thing in this version.

First off, I thought that the bottle coloring was intentional. The soda bottle appears to be a Mt. Dew type, which is usually made of green plastic, therefor it would still appear green when filled.

Second, here's my list of bugs that I haven't seen aforementioned:

  • When using the Medic skill in the Cryo lab to find a medkit, if you don't pick it up from the item screen right away, you have to exit and re-enter the Cryo lab and move down the corridor.
  • I had my sleeping bag stolen from a campsite while I was still in it :P I was under a sedative, so if that's intentional, cool! Otherwise, seems a bit unlikely.
  • Although the attack sequences do not take up Movement points and don't seem to pass much time, status bar effects move quite a bit. I've had a hard time getting past Day 1 recently when trying to escape a battle on my first scavenge attempt and winding up with severe Hypothermia. I understand that the battle would take time, but find it unlikely that I would die of Hypothermia in less than a day.
  • This may be intentional. The attack option in combat is lost whenever switching attack modes. I can understand when equipping a weapon, but switching hands or deciding to throw a spear I would think could be an on-the-fly decision.
  • Melee Attack range. I was up against 2 bandits, waiting for them to get close enough to stab with my spear. When they were 5 spaces away (I'm assuming the space # is to the closest foe), they successfully attacked me with a monkey wrench. Can they throw them? Is it possible one thug was closer?
  • (Added) Additional notes on the pill bottle issue above, I've noticed that when several bottles are present in the loot screen, only the last bottle emptied will yield pills. I'm also fairly certain that the first bottles emptied will not empty into the last bottle, so you essentially lose them. I believe they can be safely emptied if you put them in your inventory first, but I would have to double check.
  • (Added) I'm sure this must've been mentioned before, but I've found that items' conditions change quite a bit when combining/disassembling. Example: Rifle with scope and strap valued $30, when disassembled rifle is worth $300 and sling is worth $2, scope - $5. Is it averaging? Maybe there could be some sort of weighted average instead? Or simply adding would do, I suppose.

Loving the new build although I find it a bit unsettling that it's so easy to turn into a cannibal :P Maybe some sort of sickness could be implemented if you eat too much?

'Trust - the primary ingredient in any relationship.' ~CJ

Crafted items should really have the combined value and weight of the ingredients, at least if the recipe is reversible. There are so many ways to craft heavy items into lighter ones, carry them around easily and recover them afterwards, that it feels like cheating. However, I don't think this needs a high priority.

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool