smoking crack

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smoking crack

I think it would be a cool addition to the game if you could find-metal pipe-full / empty vials of crack cocainein combination with the cigarette lighter, you could get a sick bell-ringer hit, and it would induce:+ slower metabolic rate+ decreased need for sleep+ higher tolerance to pain / injury+ increased movement rate+etcnegative effects - decreased sneak- use would have to be fairly constant, or suffer withdraw symptoms: rapid degeneration of all stats- overdose / death- weight loss and decreased carry capacity- deregulation of internal body temperature- etci apologize if this is not the right venue for WOULDNT IT BE COOL IF.. posts, but it occurred to me that it could also create a new class of enemies. a cracked-out bandit being significantly more dangerous than a non-cracked out one

OF COURSE! That's completely what this game needs!  Never mind the survival thing, let's just make it NEO Junkie instead! Hell yeah! You can already drink the lighter fluid so why the hell not? Let's replace all the dogmen with THE FEDS man. Then you can like run the shit away from them and stuff. Also the looters are like other junkies man then you can kill them fore thare drugs IN A TRUE SIMULATION of real life man oh wow. YOu knoW what this is the best idea I've ever seen anywhere and you should be crowned like king of the internet and all the bestest ideas in the whole universe. Man, your ideas are so great you must like advance science with every dump you take!!!! It's like FLUSH -> BAM -> fuckyeah relativity bitches.... Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

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Lorgath, you are clearly a prince among princes. What a lengthy response that really could have been summed up with "drugs? I dont like that.' fallout has psycho and i doubt you shit a brick about all the 'junkies' who appreciate that.

Drugs have always been part of all post apocalyptic games as far as I know. And I think this is a good idea. Though perhaps it would be better if the drugs were sci-fi such as the fallouts psycho that you mentioned.

You know . . . that was my initial reaction, too.   But a similar (if zombie-themed) game, Cataclysm, has a variety of drugs and seems to do well.  Along with antibiotics, there is a range of pain killers from whiskey to aspirin to codeine.  You can end up stumbling upon caches of weed, cocaine, and even meth.  Using them has immediate impact upon certain mechanics and potential for very long-term problems.  One of the more interesting deaths I had was holed up bleeding out in a basement surrounded by cans of tuna fish and cat food, in the throes of withdrawal because I attempted a last-ditch boost to get me away from a surge of zeds.There's a way to handle it poorly, I think.  But on the other hand, it could be done in a way that contributes rather than detracts. 

There was an idea in another thread about labeless pill bottles. You could use the Medic skill to identify the contents like the Botany skill with mushrooms/berries. I think that'd work well, but it means pill based things. Amphetemines, beta blockers, painkillers, iodide tablets and so on. Knowing when to use the right drugs and when would be a good addition I think. For example. When injured and move rates are low I'll often end up running out of move range just as an enemy appears. It'd be good to have something that could earn you an extra move or two in a pinch at the expense of a crash later, which could be mitigated with other drugs. Use too many and risk passing out/ODing.

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Recreational drugs usually cause rating problems. Fallout did their part to duck that by using fake drugs. Many games just avoid them altogether. Survival games have the potential to include them, but it's both responsible and in-keeping with the theme of the game to have them act as temporary stat boosts with risky downsides, that is, best used only you're desperate and not without a cost. I wouldn't be in a rush to add them to the game myself, but it would be worth considering them.

Perhaps my reply was a bit over the top. It was your approach that bothered me more than anything: "Sick bell-ringer hit" and "cracked out bandit being significantly more dangerous than a non-cracked out one." I don't think suggesting piling on with the crack references would be the right way to go about, well, anything really. I mean, the game would then include dogmen, a megacity, basic survival skills and erm, lots of crack cocaine. Frankly, your post comes across as "LOL CRACKHEADS" and shows a complete lack of understanding of how drugs actually effect people and how they would fit into the post-apocalyptic setting of NeoScavenger. I agree with what others have said: there is a place for such things in the game, if done well. Indeed, I've advocated addiction mechanics in a post somewhere myself. I love fallout (1 & 2 at least), and I never had any problem with the made up drugs in that. I rarely have issues with drugs represented in other games either. They can make a game more mature, realistic and plausible. They can also do the exact opposite. Incorporating drugs well is difficult, and I don't really know what to suggest on that front.I also have no doubt that drugs would be rather important in a post apocalyptic setting. As in real life, people need methods of escaping harsh realities - or just enjoying themselves.

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Hey Guys!I was concerned when I saw this thread start to turn angry and spiteful, but I'm glad to see it started to steer back towards discussion on it's own. If there's one thing that I feel hurts a healthy community, it's intolerance. Disagreement is a good thing, and makes for a stronger discussion, but it should stay focused on the facts and not the emotions.Returning to J1gab4ch1's original point, I think drug-use could play an interesting role in NEO Scavenger. The mixture of bonuses and penalties is a good match for a world where everything has its up-side and down-side. I already tinkered with a (very) mild example in the case of Corn-a-cola: i.e. the sugar rush gives you a quick boost in hydration, body temp, and energy, but it's not long before the crash comes, and increased thirst, lower body temp, and fatigue with it. The cool thing about NEO Scavenger is that I can actually play with some subtle effects, and they make a big difference. Thirst and body temperature in most games are not a big deal, but they can tip the scales of life and death for some NEO Scavenger playthroughs.It was originally my plan to at least include some pharmaceuticals in the game, with similar effects. Early in NEO Scavenger's development, I had oral surgery done, and the prescription painkillers got me thinking about drugs in NEO Scavenger. Could I introduce a pain system with the wounds? Could I make painkillers into something that temporarily reduces penalties of painful wounds, but have appropriate consequences?And later, after having had some Codeine robbed from my apartment, I also started thinking about social factors: dependency, black market sales, etc. Drugs are a powerful force in the real world, both in the body and in society, and it's likely that would be amplified by the polarizing effects of worldwide apocalypse.That said, I'd also like to avoid alienating the younger set with my design choices. I don't necessarily want NEO Scavenger to be "for kids," but I remember being 9 years old, and I'd be pretty bummed if controversy barred me from playing a game like this. D&D was a big part of my childhood, and I might not have been able to play it if it had a fat "M for Mature" sticker on it. Again, that doesn't mean we have to "go Disney" with the design choices, we just have to be clever enough to make the game deeper without raising unnecessary alarm bells.So maybe that means fictional drugs? I dunno. I've never really probed the legalities of this question. I've never been in the position to decide before :) But I hear ya, and it's definitely something I plan to investigate further. Thanks for the suggestion, and thanks for not devolving into a complete flame war!

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

One of the nice things about the game being web-based is you don't have to worry about conforming to the draconian rules set by the ESRB, who put ridiculous restrictions on things like drug use even when they have perfectly valid medical use in the game.I think the best way to handle it would just be realistic about it - drugs exist, and they can be used medicinally - sometimes they're even REQUIRED for treatment. But they also have strong downsides which is why in real life they're controlled by governments and only prescribed by professionals trained in their correct usage. This being a post-apocalyptic setting, obviously such controls no longer exist, which means it's up to the player's own discretion to temper their drug use. Recreational drug use can provide temporary psychological and physical advantages, and maybe in-game there might be such a scenario where the player would be tempted to do it. But usually those advantages are outweighed heavily by the disadvantages of addiction and building up tolerance, causing significant physical distress when the dose wears off and requiring larger and larger doses in order to stave off the withdrawl. This could be especially problematic in a society that no longer has the capability to import or manufacture drugs to any significant degree, which means that feeding an addiction could be VERY difficult. These consequences should be very apparent to the player should they decide to use drugs beyond medical necessity.I would even suggest adding non-medical drugs like tobacco or alcohol to the game - they're both very common in real life, and could potentially be used as barter items or even improvised medical supplies in emergencies (I'm not sure about the medical benefits of tobacco, but alcohol can be used as a disinfectant and painkiller). The Fallout games feature both and the STALKER games have alcohol as a way of treating radiation exposure (I don't think that's entirely realistic, but it makes for a neat game feature), so it's not as if there isn't precedent.

I totally love drugs in Fallout :D Alcohol would be great too (could help with disinfecting wounds as well as for drinking)