Let's talk achievement System

28 posts / 0 new
Last post
#1
Let's talk achievement System

I think the in-game achievements should celebrate success and failure, especially since both are sources of fun.

The Legend - player kills his first Dogman.

Early Grave - player is killed in the first 5 moves.

The Cyborg - Player gets his first cybernetic implant.

True Trapper - Player crafts his first pelt clothing item.

Junk Merchant - Player earns his first 10,000 credits.

There should be a different achievement for certain rare types of unique deaths, as well as achievements that marks the high points in the story quest. Please add any fun achievement ideas to the list.

Dogman Bounty Hunter - 20 Dogmen kills

A Regular Einstein - Learn all recipes

Hoarder - Equip 3 Full backpacks

Merciless - Successfully land 3 simultaneous Flurries

A Regular Einstein - Learn all recipes

This is a great one.

Generally, I think they should be difficult to earn, involving a humorous discovery or failure.

Master Craftsman - Craft every available craft-able item in the game.

Own Worst Enemy - Starve while dying from eating poisonous food.

Einstein wasn't especially good at memorization.

Ran around with a clown mask before it was cool

achievement ideas:
pyro maniac:play has made 10 fires
novice botanist:player has identified 5 plants(every time you identify 5 plants it go's up to the next level novice,apprentice,master,expert)
medic:heal 20 wounds
lock smith:unlock 10 areas with lock picks
hunter:trap 5 squirrels
bounty hunter:kill 5 looters or raiders
the list keeps going.

asthepanda2

[i]But it's a liquid[/i] - Die of dehydration within 7 turns of drinking whiskey

IMAGE(http://www.darkwoodgame.com/sigs/darkwood_sig_600x120.jpg)
Official Trained Dogman

BEAR GRYLLS - fist a dogman to death without taking damage.

IMAGE(http://i2.minus.com/iJZLrLNwc3tGb.jpg)

That... that is so wrong, haha (especially when in the post preview it pretty much just says "fist a dogman")

Rant time, for the sake of the game keeping it's level.

Breaking the flow by sharing a thought - while I may not be fond of achievements in most games offering such, I won't be strongly opposing it if big part of the community would be really fond of such. But if they have to be in, do please have in mind - make them actual achievements! Things, you know, to achieve. In all honesty, I am tired of all the achievements that are basically granted just for playing the game and are 'achieved' sooner or later anyway, provided one won't die.

All those (speaking in general about games now) 'Congratulations! You actually play the game! Achievement~!' get somewhat obnoxious and there are players who may be offended by such, as it implies that they're retarded enough for regular bits of the game to be great challenge for them. In some games, like MMOs they're also blatant overachiever-bait, made for the sake of forcing clueless player to play a bit more to get another achievement no one will ever give a crap about, but the lack of which may work against his tendencies.

So, if there are to be any (and I still would rather keep the game without such), make them actual challenge. Killing a dogman is easy at some point when you'll get a gun. Make an achievement of killing five of those, while using only low-tech melee weaponry! Juggling items or getting them for the sake of achievement is just a matter of time and a bother in itself - make an achievement out of getting highest-tier, hi-tech weapon in pristine condition - a thing there is a chance for only a handful of times in a regular game and all of those tricky and hard. Getting some minor injury, doing some mundane task is hardly a real achievement - surviving, say, cholera at stage 2 without visit at the hospital though - that's something.

But you see, no one will still probably care, probably quite a few older players who choose their own challenges and don't need some popup-badges won't even feel much satisfaction out of some achievement. That's why I'm getting back to my earlier point - is it really worth it? Be honest with me, would things like crafting some item or dragging a few containers full of random stuff really make you want to come here to brag about it? No? Then, matter of common sense and/or humility aside, it's not worth an achievement. Neither make the game treat the player like an idiot who has to get pitying smile and pat on the head for playing so he won't feel bad, please.

Neo Scavenger game will be on Steam soon enough. Although Steam doesn't require achievements, it helps. And achievement systems can have many different design functions. For example, the Minecraft achievement system is actually tutorial that motivates the player through the main story-line of the game. It's a game design tool that can motivate, reward and guide players. It is also a form of interaction between the Designer and the Player. Guess what? Positive feedback works.

I started the thread to get people thinking about what kind of Steam achievements they might want during play. Since the player can use creativity to do interesting things and/or die in unique ways, I'm hoping the achievements are a celebration of epic/funny failure and rare success. But positive reward is useful for a lot of different game design situations. It has nothing to do with bragging rights or whatever claims you're making. It's a game mechanic that a game designer uses to promote certain player behaviors.

You can be cynical about achievement systems if you want, but they are a very useful game-design tool.

I agree with orbit, and I felt the same way, that there should be some sort of achievement/objective system to get different audiences interested. It's a good idea to give people some direction and a guiding hand along the way to the main storyline goal.

Take TES Skyrim as an example. You can barrel right on through the main storyline with no requirements to do any of the infinite side quests that are offered to complete it. However, you are missing out on the largest part of the game, and while there are benefits from completing side quests, it's easy to lose interest in.

NeoScavenger is much smaller than Skyrim, but still contains a plethora of things that can be done, and new players have this huge area to get up and play in, with only a light in the distance being any indication of what to do next. Understandably, the game is in early stages, but I believe it would be a good way to generate interest in exploring more of what the game has to offer by giving people set goals.

Games like NeoScavenger are fun (for me of course) because they are surprising and have tons of things to discover. NS is not nearly finished but it have so much potential to replays because even person like me with great number of play-troughs still cannot be sure he saw everything and what is left to discover - and that is what encourages exploration.

- Adding named Achievements like "Kill 5 dogmen with rifle" are not delicate pushes in right direction, it's a game lore in form of Tutorial showed down players throat. Now player knows that dogmen exist in larger numbers, that they can/should be killed, that he will get a rifle at some point... Whole world immersion, fear of unknown enemy and "stuff" like that gone before the game even started. It discloses best the game have to offer on Achievement menu and taking surprise from game itself.

Not to mention, unless this is very, very balanced, achievement system forces players into certain play-style (because I don't think there are can be many "fun" achievements for not fighting at all, traveling light and generally making sure nothing bad happens to player). That also encourages "jackass" kind of game play just to discover all the stupid and pointless things to do for the game to reward.

- Hidden/locked achievements - those I am OK with as long, just like Scavenger suggested, as the game wont try to shove lots of them at my face all the time. Those however serve no purpose in giving direction (which I am fine with btw as I don't think they should).
"Craft 10 items" or "Kill 3 enemies" will have to go, since those are things player will most likely do everytime he plays prolonged game. Finding secret places, obscure storylines or stealing Merga Wright's left slipper are things worth of bragging with Achievements (but are yet to be implemented) as is surviving Poison 3. In this system, with game not telling you what to do, creative/hard ways to kill enemy or finding exotic ways to die could be rewarded (that is, not Achievement for every one, just unusual few).


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
DeviantArt Gallery of MoD Sprites

I agree that achievements should be mostly rare or difficult to achieve. And I do hope they would encourage the right kind of play (good strategies). My only addition was that I though there could be some humorous examples in there also. It's always good to through in something unexpected for entertainment value.

I agree with Scavenger and Kaaven, I'm tired of the "achievements" in a lot of recent games that are things you're naturally going to do in the course of the game. It's like giving an achievement for drinking water or moving to another hex for the first time.

track runner:get to dmc in less than 4 days(player must have athletic perk and run all the way there)

traveler:explore half way around the map
explorer:explore the the entire map

asthepanda2

Points? What points?

Achievements should be hard to achieve and be a reward onto themselves. Not something to transfer into money.

I wholeheartedly agree. I may still not be overly fond of achievements but they may at least work without being dumb if done properly. But encouraging grinding them for the sake of some rewards? No, please, just no.

To get reward, I'd rather have players set out to achieve things on their own (as in, undertake tasks without them having any achievement popup or whatever) - go to some dangerous but profitable place, fight some strong enemy, raise money for some nice piece of equipment. And while achievements could relate to some item (achievement for finding raider camp in the wild, infiltrating it and killing raider band leader without alarming guards - which thing also allows looting of said leader's corpse/tent before attempting escape) I would be against getting an item for an achievement.

mans best friends worst enemy:kill 5 dogmen
9 lives:get mortally wounded 9 times and live
led belly:get shot in the stomach
hardy apatite:eat 7 meals in the red gnome(is the dinner in the dmc the red gnome?,i can't remember)
stealthy:sneak past 4 enemys

asthepanda2

I think achievemnets should be more in a feedback direction and not so much an achievement list (e.g. A popup which says: "You just killed your Fifth dogamn, great job!") rather than a 'Kill 5 dogmen' in a list. As Kaaven said, fear of the unknown keeps the immersion going. Perhaps achievements will supply the game with extra replay value, but that really isn't needed for this game, as it already has replay value and it's still reasonably early in dev.

Wolfie

С волка́ми жить, по-во́лчьи выть.

NEO Scav is a great game with endless possibilities. Adding achievements is what the majority of mainstream games are doing and /most/ of those achievements are benign, boring tasks that you accomplish within 5 minutes. They are about as meaningful as loading up the game.

However, because NEO Scav is a sandbox the way we play the game and the way we do things is entirely up to us. For example we could create a character with zero traits trying to survive long enough to reach the city, however do we really need an achievement system that grants us validation for doing such tasks?

I think not, think back to the early sandbox RPGs like Fallout, before achievements were even heard of we'd make up our own characters and have them try and survive our own way without any sort of third part validation.

In my opinion achievements are just a way to extend the e-peen of young gamers who want a medal for doing something "special" in a sandbox and are wholly unneeded in Neo Scavenger.

Piss off wanker - defeat an opponent with one shot using the sniper-rifle
Zero punctuation - then your lungs doesn't get punctuated from an attack that usually does that

flying pie with a big sword

addict:consume 50 pills in one game

hyper:drink a total of 10 corn-a-cola

citizen:enter DMC for the first time

old world food:eat at the dinner at DMC

Over douse:consume 100 pills in one game

asthepanda2

Carma plays a role in these:

Angle:help/try to help the people in random encounters

Demon:Attack/don't help people in random encounters

Neutralist:leave random encounters
____________________________________________________________________

River man:set a camp at a river

Woodsmen:Set a camp at a forest

plains man:set a camp at a plains area(flat land/no trees)
____________________________________________________________________

hoarder:have a campsite filled with back packs(that are filled all the way)

asthepanda2

NO BRAINS: survive a shot to the head

IRON FISTS: Kill the dogman in the cryo facility

GUNS ARE FOR COWARDS: Destroy an gun

CANNIBAL: Eat human meat

Greedy Bastard

How about one that can't be done (anymore)
Paradox- put backpack into backpack

============================================
Children's backpack full of bullets? I see nothing wrong in that.

if yore playing project zomboid thats an bad idea, remember losing an shotgun that way. (but i guess we arent playing Project Zomboid)

Greedy Bastard

I know how you feel about losing a shotgun in Project Zomboid,I have lost plenty

asthepanda2

"What the-?" : Wind up as roadkill
What have we here? : Find a unique item (Mechanical doll, "Dog be gone", Strangler's hood, etc.)
I ain't scared of no ghost : Get killed in Seven Gables road
Good kitty : Get killed by the cybertooth (my unofficial name, unsure if that's what it's been called elsewhere)
3 legged freak : Get killed in the strange woods
Nap time : Get killed by the slumbering horde
Man in wolf's clothing : Wear a dogman skin cloak
"Hold still" : Score a headshot with a scoped rifle
Ye-what-ka? : Encounter a yezinka (rare from my experiences)
Back to the void! : Kill the wraith
BLUE frogs? : Have a run in with a blue frog follower
"Man-eating Bad-mutha" : Have a run in with a bad-mutha
"IT'S A TRAP!" : Use lure 100 times
Hard headed : Use headbutt 100 times
Street Sweeper : Use leg trip 100 times

There are a lot here. I guess you can pick the ones you want to add (if any)

A.K.A DapperDogman. Smashing.
Do you like my mask? It's a cool new toy I found.