A HOT topic - Fire!

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A HOT topic - Fire!

Just thinking on some more aspects of survival in the real world, and the dangers that would be faced. In a great many of the survival games that I have played, books that I have read on the topic, fire is a huge one. It's both crucial to our survival and deadly if out of control. It's THE primal force, one that is the most seductive and revered, yet taken for granted at the same time in modern day society. Somehow, a great part of it is missing in NEOScavenger.

Updating as new ideas come in.

Mechanics
Forest Fire

  • An untended campfire or use of molotov cocktails can lead to an uncontrollable fire that spreads to nearby forest hexes and damage entities and possibly items, some of which may be salvageable while others are lost

Wound Cauterization

  • Using a heated metal object to prevent infection when the player does not have access to antibiotics or alcohol
  • Used to treat severe blood loss
  • Causes severe pain with a chance to cause the player to pass out depending on their constitution ("tough" skill reduces the chance of losing consciousness)
  • Treatment success increases for medics, failure can result in burns

Ailments and Status Effects

Burning

  • Status Effect caused by catching fire (wild fire, weaponized torch, molotov, flamethrower, fire dancing/unskilled fire poi)
  • Causes Burns

Burns

  • A new damage type that can be caused by improper cauterization (non-medics) or from catching on fire
  • Botanists can use flora to treat burns, while medics who treat their burns with clean rags will heal faster/have a reduced risk of infection

Smoke inhalation

  • Ailment caused by lingering around a forest fire (i.e. player stays in area for a turn/is asleep during fire spread)
  • Treated by inhaling steam from water boiled over a charcoal fire

Items

Weapons

Molotov Cocktail: Bottle of Whiskey + Dirty/Clean Rag + Lighter

  • Can be used in combat to damage multiple enemies at once (when encountering multiple enemies in the same hex) or on one for a great deal of damage. Can also be used to intentionally cause forest fires.

Flamethrower: Mechanic Skill + Fuel Tank + Nozzle + Rubber hose + multitool + assorted screws (etc.,etc.,)

  • Can be used in combat to damage enemies that are out of melee range

Consumables

Gasoline: Cannot be crafted, found in world, stored in Fuel Tanks/Cans, can be siphoned from vehicles using a Rubber Hose

  • Used as a fuel source for vehicles and Flamethrowers

Unidentified Herb: Found in world using Botany skill while scavenging in nature

  • When identified (botany skill) can either be used in cooking to increase food quality or applied to wounds to slow bleeding, alleviate pain, or treat burns

Utility

Fuel Tank: Cannot be crafted, found in world

  • Used in crafting of Flamethrowers

Fuel Can: Cannot be crafted, found in world

  • Used to store excess gasoline

Rubber Hose: Cannot be crafted, found in world

  • Used by Mechanics to craft a Flamethrower
  • Can also be used to siphon gas from abandoned vehicles (mechanic skill increases success of siphoning)

Metal Drum Barrel: No recipe, found in world, cannot be moved without vehicle

  • Used to contain fires and create charcoal

Charcoal: campfire + metal drum barrel + branch

  • Used to create smaller cooking fires that are less likely to burn out of control and possibly higher quality cooked meats (latter requiring trapping skill)
  • Requires less inventory space than branches for creating fires
  • Can be used in conjunction with twigs/newspaper to start a fire

I like your style. Great suggestion.

As per Forest fires, this could a double-edged sword. On the one hand, you loose possible shelter for a camping ground. On the other hand, this would allow you to turn a forest tile into a plains tile. It might also attract a LOT of enemies.

Using fire to stop emergency bleeding is logical, as is using it as a method of attack. I would LOVE to be able to craft a "torch" and use that torch in combat with a Dogman, provided there is a chance for the Dogman to catch fire with each hit.

We definitely need to be able to find "ruined gas station" locations and "ruined car" items for scavenging and crafting. This would allow access to fire related items and fuels. Plus, then the game could make Road Warrior references.

Thanks for the feedback!

Dogmen probably require the most strategy to combat due to their constitution and brutality, one flurry can totally wreck your day (and save file). They don't really seem to have much of a weakness and are fearless up against us poor blunt-toothed, clawless, hairless apes, but all creatures fear fire, and I think torches would be a great way to combat them as well. Especially with all of that fur they're wearing.

What'd be double-awesome is if dogmen corpses could be skinned and gutted for meat and material for clothing, their claws could be used to craft claw-tipped gauntlets that allow for better unarmed combat (for triple backpacking loot-fiends like myself). If killed by fire, however, their corpses would pretty much be unsalvageable, which could both encourage and reward more skillful tactics in fights.

On that note, what about the concept of smearing your clothing in gore to repel them? Unsanitary, but easier to deal with than death by dogman, lol. Maybe I'm just hooked on The Walking Dead.

What'd be double-awesome is if dogmen corpses could be skinned and gutted for meat and material for clothing, their claws could be used to craft claw-tipped gauntlets that allow for better unarmed combat (for triple backpacking loot-fiends like myself). If killed by fire, however, their corpses would pretty much be unsalvageable, which could both encourage and reward more skillful tactics in fights.

Yep, you'd be the scariest Scavenger in the wastes if you wore a mask crafted from a Dogman skull.

On that note, what about the concept of smearing your clothing in gore to repel them? Unsanitary, but easier to deal with than death by dogman, lol. Maybe I'm just hooked on The Walking Dead.

Dogmen are territorial, so maybe a Dogman-suit would attract feral Dogmen? But it's an interesting idea. Speaking of Walking Dead, I liked how some of them wore Walker ears as trophies. Even if Dan doesn't want us to be able to make a full Dogman outfit, it would be nice to take their ears or teeth or claws to make into jewelry. I bet it would sell for a nice price.

Edit: Sorry, I went off topic. Expanding fire would be a logical step in the games development.

Haha, that's exactly what I was thinking too, about the trophies. But yes, fire, fire, right. Was thinking about making a second thread dedicated to dogmen-related things. I think they're pretty iconic to the game and deserve some more recognition, like creepers to minecraft, except that dogmen will bring you a slow death, even if you get away from them.

Lately I've been thinking about metallurgy, which requires very... hot... FIRE!

Bullet Crafting - You'd need old shell casings (from discharged bullets), the ability to smelt scrap metal for the slug and the ability to make or obtain gun powder. There would be chemical factories in the DMC and most likely labs throughout the wastes for obtaining the ingredients (all of which can be found naturally also).

That would include a new Skill called Metallurgy and the ability to craft a crude furnace.

Charcoal is one of the components of gunpowder (charcoal, potassium nitrate, sulfur). =)

Sulfur and potassium nitrate would have to be found if gunpowder was to be crafted, since the processes to obtain these without mining (and with the current mining game trends, I'm not sure how people feel about that, haha) would be beyond a solitary explorer with no access to a lab.

You are correct, as per usual. *tips hat*

However, it would be possible to craft charcoal. And if there were abandoned mine-shafts in the game (I wish there were underground tiles), you could find the ingredients out in the wild. Plus if you had an underground level, you could have underground enemies like Ratmen.

In either case, metallurgy would be a logical use of fire.

It would be pretty dope to use underground facilities as shelters and sources of loot. Fallout shelters and such would be excellent for camps, and perhaps even can be built up to being a semi-permanent residence, or at least rally point for the player.

I also like the idea of additional mob types in the form of mutants, ratmen are particularly fitting.

on the topic of mutants, it would be nice to see maybe,radiation and areas that are radiated and if you stay in them for to long you either die or become mutated giving you the mutant perk/trait but giving you the mutated side effect which.

mutant perk/trait:player is stronger,tougher,and can stay in radiated areas with less effects to health.

mutated side effect:player might develop illness faster,and is rejected by others.

more effects:if you stay in the radiation even longer you start to increase mutation level which increases your tough, strong levels but increase you negative effects:you are basically a human rad house and can cause radioactive death to enemy's

can also happen to enemy's and animals.

ex:
rat + mutation = mutant rat
mutant rat + mutation = human like rat/beastly rat

asthepanda2

Would certainly be interesting to have an alternate storyline for mutants. Mutations are quite detrimental to your social life and will more than likely block off any human contact (No DMZ for youuu!), except for the possibility of human mutant sympathizers. Maybe one of these guys can be a scientist who has found a way to restore mutants to a more human state? To really make things interesting, what if the procedure is potentially fatal?

due to the story line of the game it would make sense to have mutants,
also the metal drum could hold a large amount of stuff if you think about it plus poisons from plants can help make an enemy retreat or die.
oh and i saw your dog man post,i made the same concept post on the crafting topic on the forums.

asthepanda2

Well... Mutants are iconic to science-fiction genre so there is nothing directly against adding them, but still I feel kind of wrong about this idea.

As far as supernatural entities go, I am entirely OK with almost anything: ghosts (like merga wright), beast-people (like our best friend dogman), fairies, you name it (dragons would probably suck). Indeed, I would be really happy if NS world would turn on a more Cthulhu-esque way.

But mutants... They are not supernatural by definition, more like very exaggerated "science-made-scary" and I don't like that very much, because in reality radiation just don't work that way and do not mutate people or animals by contact itself.

Also mutants are very overused in general fiction, going head-to-head with zombies :D Even killer robots are less common...

P.S.
That was noted even in Fallout series (mostly 1 and 2) as not a single game's mutant was made/caused by radiation.


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
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We're referring to Dogmen as mutants, actually. As far as I know, there's no evidence supporting that they're an evolved or new species of canine, then again, there's no evidence that they're mutated humans, either.

Regardless, when we spoke of mutants, we were referring to Dogmen and the hypothetical ratmen. =)

And to be perfectly honest, different types of radiation can cause a type of mutation, and not all mutations are caused by radiation. Perhaps not to the extreme that we see in science fiction, but if you think about it, many things in sci-fi and fantasy alike are exaggerated things based in the real world.

That aside, I would say that NEOScav fits the sci-fi genre more than fantasy as well.

I just want to chime in that science and nature can create all manner of genetic oddities and even monsters. In the lore of the game, the world was ravaged by war and other disasters. So there is no telling what kind of scientific experiments might have gone wrong. Apparently there is a myth in Michigan about a real "Dogman" (an urban legend which is largely though of as a hoax). The fact that the game takes place in Michigan has lead many players to assume these Dogmen are "supernatural" beings.

But the game exists in a world with advanced technologically, so it's also possible Dogmen are a result of genetic manipulation. Dan leaves that up to interpretation. And I'd welcome all manner of new enemies, but probably not ghosts since you can't kill something without a body. And no matter where the story goes, I will always look at it as science-fantasy. If something happens in the game which could not be possible in reality, the game simply takes place in an alternate universe where the rules of physics differ.

I was mostly referring to asthepanda2iscool's ideas:

radiation and areas that are radiated and if you stay in them for to long you either die or become mutated giving you the mutant perk/trait

and

:if you stay in the radiation even longer you start to increase mutation level which increases your tough, strong levels but increase you negative effects:you are basically a human rad house and can cause radioactive death to enemy's

As long as things are trying to be consistent, I am basically OK with all sorts of genetic experiments, alien visitors or trans-dimensional gods of chaos working in NS universe but "radiation mutants"... I don't know, it feels less like serious science-fiction or horror mystery and too much like silly pseudo-scientific magic of early Star Trek or X-Men (my line of thinking also involves the image of Toxic Avenger :).

Also orbitneo

Spoiler: Highlight to view
the Merga Wright looks very ghostly to me, and is as far as I know (almost) invincible :D

<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
DeviantArt Gallery of MoD Sprites

OT: 9/10 would bang 9/10 X-Men mutants, just sayin'.

Mmm, dat Gambit.

But I get it. It all really just depends on the tone in which it's presented.

Mmm, dat Gambit.

Haha, did he ever shack up with Rogue? I remember he was in a comma at one point.

@ Kaaven:

Well, everything that happens in nature is natural, so technically nothing is supernatural (even if it's beyond our current understanding). If a story involves the Force (or anything remotely spiritual), I just assume there is a rational explanation in the logic of that universe. But I disagree with the concept of an afterlife. For example if ghosts existed, there would be billions and billions of ghost humans of all ages everywhere. In fact, there would be so many ghosts that no space would be left without ghosts in it. Not to mention that evolution is a scientific fact which tells us that all life on this planet are part of the same family tree (just examine our DNA). So if humans have ghosts when we die, logic would dictate that fish do also, plants and animals. That would be an absurd amount of ghosts.

Except that the recurring belief (and almost all cultures speak of ghosts in one form or another) that ghosts are souls of the dead who cannot "move on" for one reason or another. When they do, it's either to some paradise, hell, or reincarnation in some manner; depends on who you ask. Just some food for thought.

We should probably leave it at that, however. Conversational topics such as this are best avoided in public forums that do not specialize in the topic due to it being grounded in our personal beliefs, and it tends to be a touchy subject for many. Not to mention that I could end up writing a book in one post about different theories of what happens after death, and suddenly no one cares about fire in NeoScav. =P

Sorry, I really went off topic there. If you want to continue the supernatural conversation, there is a forum called OFF TOPIC. If you have that much to say on the subject, I'd be interested. But for the sake of returning the thread to a discussion on fire... fire is used in Witchcraft. If the game truly involves supernatural elements, might as well craft some Witches.

EDIT:
Off-topic
http://bluebottlegames.com/main/node/1460


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
DeviantArt Gallery of MoD Sprites

yes mutations happen over time,

ex:
When America nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki the next generation had mutations.

My point is that the main character(Philip) has been in cryo stasis for 100 years at most,given the amount of time for more generations thus giving mutations because of the the main conflict of the game.

also the fallout series was fun,an i cant wait for fallout 4

asthepanda2

I do hate using wikipedia as a source, but it works.

"In genetics, a mutation is a change of the nucleotide sequence of the genome of an organism, virus, or extrachromosomal genetic element. Mutations result from unrepaired damage to DNA or to RNA genomes (typically caused by radiation or chemical mutagens), from errors in the process of replication, or from the insertion or deletion of segments of DNA by mobile genetic elements.[1][2][3] Mutations may or may not produce discernable changes in the observable characteristics (phenotype) of an organism. Mutations play a part in both normal and abnormal biological processes, including evolution, cancer, and the development of the immune system."

I hope that it puts some rest to the mutant debate, lol.

Sorry for off topics :D

Anyway - fire.
I think it would be possible to implemented the wild/forest fire the way camp is - you could see icon of flame (instead of tent) and know that this tile is in flames. Entering would trigger one out of several automatic events in which you can be burned, die or have a chance to walk through only feeling the heat (if you really need to go into at all/are trapped and have to escape).

The tiles of burned forest/scorched earth/barren hill would be extremely cool but might be too much for the game to handle (guess that tile-changing would be happening almost all the time on some part of the map).

Other than that, I like all the ideas, would add a lot of immersion to the game.

Also:
Hair spray + lighter - best improvised weapon ever (if you are twelve) with 2-3 uses before breaking.


<--Mighty (mini)Mod of Doom-->
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Damn, I can't believe I didn't think about ghetto-rig flamethrowers!

There you go took care of that double post for you.

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