Torn about the game

15 posts / 0 new
Last post
Torn about the game

Hey guys, I'm new here and this is my first post!

So... it's funny. I love this game, or rather, I want to love this game. I really enjoy the mechanics, the crafting, the survival, but I am more or less meh about the story and what I dislike the most are those... let's call them gimmicky elements.

What do I mean? I mean all those things that only happen once and are then removed from the game against all logic or those things that break the game's own rules. In my opinion, any survival game has to try and be as intuitive as possible, because otherwise it will not feel immersive to most people and immersion is important with survival games. But then giving "random" benefits to players because they have picked a certain traits just really pulls me out of that immersion.

One of the first and worst offenders, to me, is the very first encounter where we deal with a creature we could never in a million years defeat outside of a scripted encounter, at least not naked and unarmed. Not to mention the tape which later gives us another gimmicky superpower. But getting players to pick certain traits so they get that special coat at the beginning... sorry, that's just silly.

I feel the story elements and the scripted encounters really make me feel like I am "playing it wrong" if I don't read up on those encounters first. Trial and error just doesn't cut it if those encounters don't follow any real logic, are randomised and, above all, can only be experienced once per playthrough without the option to load and try again.

In order to make this a little more constructive... is there a mod that expands the part I like and cuts back on the stuff i don't?

Oh! Nevermind, didn't realise this forum was essentially dead.

Dead? No. Just "mostly dead" :)

I think that's fair criticism, and I agree with parts of it. Ultimately, I was attempting to recreate the sorts of encounters one has in a tabletop RPG session, where the game master lets players solve problems using their skills and items. Sometimes, those solutions are less than sensible. But it's all towards the goal of spinning a good yarn, and developing the world and characters.

But you're right that those elements can be at odds with the hardcore, systemic survival mechanics. Chalk it up to me being a novice game designer!

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

No worries! You got tons absolutely right.

It's interesting you would bring up tabletop RPG. Because this very issue is what initially got me interested in tabletop RPG in the first place.

I was playing Monkey Island 2, I think, so this must have been back in the 90s and I was frustrated with only having three or four dialogue options when I could have thought of so many other ways to solve the problem. Funny enough, I was wishing for tabletop RPG without knowing it existed at the time.

But that's the problem, I guess. When you're sitting down (or skyping, nowadays) with your GM, you can come up with stuff he would never have thought of and (if he is any good) he will come up with something on the spot and react adequately. This is simply impossible in a game like this, because you will only predict and code so many different solutions.

But hey, you're living the dream, I'm only dreaming it :D

Since you're here... there are two questions I couldn't find an answer to:
1) Does Strong and Crowbar stack when looting?
2) Can Locked Storage Sheds be opened with a Crowbar?

Yeah, that's basically the conclusion I arrived at, too: there are way more creative responses players can think of than I would ever be able to cover. Maybe someday we'll have an AI that can fill that gap, but for now, we strange short lists :)

For your questions, I'm pretty sure strong and crowbar stack. And yes, crowbar is supposed to open a locked shed. (I don't think it required strong.)

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

Thank you!

Oh, and I figured out what irks me about the encounters.

The rest of the game oozes freedom of choice. You can do whatever you want. But once you go to Zom Zom's or a place like that you feel like you are being railroaded along a very narrow path. I guess that about sums up how it feels.

That's a big part of the reason I'm trying to remove bespoke encounters in Ostranauts. It takes a ton of time to write an encounter, and it still lacks freedom. I don't yet know if I'll be able to avoid them entirely, but I'm trying to make the most of the game systems.

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

That's a really cool idea. And thanks for responding to my thread, that's really nice of you.

Hey, I have been talking with some guys on the discords and we are wondering... does distance affect accuracy? It seems to me that to hit a target at 6 or 8 distance is vastly more likely than at 20, but the modders I talked to said there was nothing in the files they could see. But I know you come from tabletop RP and in most games range does matter, so I assume it does in NEO Scavenger as well... do you recall how you made it work?

tl;dr: Does the to hit chance increase with proximity to the target when using ranged attacks?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I made range matter. Though, it may have been hard-coded. Or at least, a hard-coded behavior modified by the attack's range. (E.g. they all have a similar range curve, but the attack's range modifies the length)

It's been a few years since I looked, though :)

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

Thanks! So, this means that at ranges of 20 or above you're unlikely to hit anything, no matter if you have a scoped hunting rifle or a sling? Cause this seems to be my experience. Which makes the long range weapons fairly useless - especially since their ammo is too expensive to waste

Oh, and by the way... naming the running shoes "Trucks" is hella clever. Was that just a random name or did you think this up as a mix between Chucks (similar sounding) and Vans (vehicle type)? If so: Kudos!

So, looking over the code and data, something like a sling has a range of 20-25. A rifle 80-95 (scoped is the higher end).

Initially, you have a 100% chance to hit.

The game first calculates "effective" range, which is current range. And if you lack ranged skill, it doubles.

Then, it divides effective range by (attack mode range + 1) to get a "range factor," which is between 0% (point blank range) and 100% (weapon range + 1). Note that lack of skill changes this to 0%-50%.

If it's raining, chance to hit loses (range factor * 0.15). So the farther away you are, the more rain impacts chance to hit. Up to maximum of 15%. (30% if unskilled.)

If it's dark, and target is lit or unlit, you get additional chance penalty (and like rain, it's scaled by range factor).

Chance to hit is then multiplied by (1 - range factor). Which means no penalty at point blank, and no chance to hit at max range. (Half max range for unskilled.)

Target's cover further reduces chance to hit, depending on cover amount.

Finally, if the chance to hit is less than 5%, the game bumps it up to 5%. There's always a tiny chance. (Like rolling a natural 20.)

So, in practice, a scoped rifle (range 95) under ideal conditions (skilled, no rain, bright lighting) has a to-hit curve that looks like (1 - x / (96)). So roughly 80% chance to hit at range 20, 50% at 50, and 5% above 95.

But conditions are probably not ideal very often :)

And re: "Trucks," I'm only half clever. I was riffing on "Vans." But I like the "Chucks" connection!

Dan Fedor - Founder, Blue Bottle Games

Wow, thanks for such a detailed answer! That's really helpful.

I did find it a bit standout that some of the skill checks can stand out a bit and always have the same outcome, but it didn't bother me much and I usually just avoided them if I found them unfair and off-putting (e.g. a pristine boot if you have tracking and search the car wreckage). I also made my account here just yesterday since I posted this very comment, some cool topics and stuff and I even shared one of my stories, plus worked out the signature thing in account editing and took the time to make a poem based off most of my standout runs in it.

Roses are red,
Been playing so great,
Your whole body is in an inflammatory, 'potentially' fatal state.

I have a question, it's simple I think, who knows the name of the folder where the game is installed, I use a file explorer that helps me a bit but I can't find the catpeta or what it is like? I'm on Android, don't think I'm a fool, in pc it would already be solved